Fire just north of Anne

[MandysMom]

Well said, and I'll add, here is Sacramento region, we are at 70% of our usual rainfall for thus date in season. Each day that goes by with no rain, that 70% drops a little more, until rain falls. Only a sprinkle or two predicted in next 10 days. I was born in CA and have spent most of my life here, and clearly climate has changed. Anne's comment on usually much rain, might make many of you laugh-- more than 20 or so inches-- per YEAR, is a lot of rain here. If you are anywhere outside the southwest, look up your states annual rainfall.
Velda

[JudyJB]

I spent all the summers of my life in Michigan's "Thumb" from 1951 until I got married, and even then almost all summer weekends until I told the place in 2000. (Just hold up your left hand with your palm facing away from you. Our cottage was at the tip of the thumb on Lake Huron.)

All of Michigan had been logged by the 1800s, mostly from 1850 to the 1870s. As Anne points out, after the trees were cut, "slash" was left in what had been a gigantic white pine forest throughout the state. In the 1870s, much of the land full of slash was sold by lumber companies to farmers who had to clear the mess and try to plow. Consider a forest looking like everyone had been dumping their Christmas trees for a decade. (I used to have the original land deed for our property starting with a grant to a Civil War veteran to a lumber company, and then to "settlers.")

Anyway, in 1870s through the early 1880s, almost all of Michigan burned, including the entire Thumb in one single fire. Some believe the western part of the state burned from embers flying across Lake Michigan due to the Great Chicago Fire. In other areas, it was due to farmers trying to burn the slash on the forest floor so they could plow it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thumb_Fire

There is such a thing as selective logging, where they go in and take only certain trees, but they still don't remove the brush or the slash they created when they cut the trees down. However, it is a lot more expensive than regular logging, so it is not done as often. So large fires are not new, unfortunately.

[Cudedog]

Well said, and I'll add, here is Sacramento region, we are at 70% of our usual rainfall for thus date in season. Each day that goes by with no rain, that 70% drops a little more, until rain falls. Only a sprinkle or two predicted in next 10 days. I was born in CA and have spent most of my life here, and clearly climate has changed. Anne's comment on usually much rain, might make many of you laugh-- more than 20 or so inches-- per YEAR, is a lot of rain here. If you are anywhere outside the southwest, look up your states annual rainfall.
Velda

Thanks for your post, Velda - most excellent! . . . and thanks for starting this thread.

As you know (and possibly readers not in California might not) annual rainfall totals can be different, in different regions of California. California has many different biomes (as I am sure you know). It is entirely possible (if one likes to drive fast!) to visit one of the highest mountains in the continental United States (Mt. Whitney, in east-central California), the lowest (and hottest) place in the United States (Death Valley), the ocean, and one of the greatest food-producing areas in the world (the Central Valley) - all in the course of one day!!

Annual average rainfall for the Paradise area is around 58 inches for the year (the actual period we will see rain here generally runs from October to March). October-November-December averages are 18.63 inches for the Paradise area. This year during October-November the total has been about five inches. The jury is still out on December. I'll get back to everyone on that later.

http://www.intellicast.com/Local/History.aspx?location=USCA0836.

Although I am unable to find exact "to date" rainfall totals for Paradise, I am guessing that the rain that came immediately after the fire totaled around five or maybe six inches. A lot of rain, all at once. Think mudslides in the fire area. And, as of today, it hasn't rained since.

As for how the (er. . .) "weather patterns" have changed here. . . when I first moved to the Northern California Sierra Foothills (in 1976) the first hard freeze - and the rains (with maybe a spot of snow) - would come around mid-September, and we could have rain up until (and including) June. 4th July you would probably need a jacket to go out and watch the fireworks.

And here's a kicker, followed by a curiosity: the foothill area where I moved to was part of the "Gold Rush" area, so the area had been settled for more than a hundred years.

The curiosity of this fact is that many older homes in the foothills at that time (1976) would have an "ice house" out behind to store ice over the summer!! Being a City Girl who grew up in the Los Angeles area, the first time I saw one I didn't know what it was, and had to ask! Most, if not all, of these ice house buildings are gone now - either torn down, or adapted for other uses. One doesn't need an ice house where there is not ice available to harvest due to forty years of changing weather patterns. And where the electric grid has finally arrived.

These days, the lakes in the area no longer freeze even a little bit (actually, not at all - the weather is just not cold enough), let alone freeze thick enough - two feet or more - in order to be able to go out on the frozen lake to cut ice for storage.

This year, the rains that forty years ago came in mid-September finally came at the end of November - two months later. Which means two months more of high temperatures and dried-out vegetation than in the past. Not sure when the rains will stop this year, as I lost my crystal ball , but if they end this year again in March (forty years ago they might not totally stop until June).

So these days, due to "changing weather patterns", we have a four-month "rainy season" instead of a nine-month "rainy season".

This is not "speculation" on my part. I, and all northern Californians, are living it.

All of Michigan had been logged by the 1800s, mostly from 1850 to the 1870s. As Anne points out, after the trees were cut, "slash" was left in what had been a gigantic white pine forest throughout the state. . . Consider a forest looking like everyone had been dumping their Christmas trees for a decade.

Anyway, in 1870s through the early 1880s, almost all of Michigan burned, including the entire Thumb in one single fire. Some believe the western part of the state burned from embers flying across Lake Michigan due to the Great Chicago Fire. In other areas, it was due to farmers trying to burn the slash on the forest floor so they could plow it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thumb_Fire

Excellent post, Judy! Thank you. Lots of good information here. The Thumb Fire burned around one million acres, and killed around two-hundred people - all in one day.

As per Wiki: "The Thumb Fire was the consequence of drought, hurricane-force winds, heat, the after-effects of the Port Huron Fire of 1871, and the ecological damage wrought by the era's logging techniques" This fire is considered one of the worst fires in the history of the United States.

There is such a thing as selective logging, where they go in and take only certain trees, but they still don't remove the brush or the slash they created when they cut the trees down. However, it is a lot more expensive than regular logging, so it is not done as often. So large fires are not new, unfortunately.

The thing about "selective logging" or "selective thinning" that one must keep in mind is this: These "selected" trees are rarely - probably never - just conveniently located along-side a road of (any kind!), where the logger can just back up to the tree and take it down, never leaving the road.

So, not only is slash created around the "selected" tree - slash is also created (and a lot of it!) as brush and small trees are either cut down or (more likely) bulldozed so as to make a rough dirt track into the forest, in order to get to the location of these "selected trees". Often the route through the brushy understory in order to arrive at these trees can be a mile or more (often more) - which is one of the reasons that make the logging of "selected trees" so expensive.

What happens to these miles of slash that is created in accessing these trees? It is just pushed out of the way, and left to lie where it was pushed to, drying in the sun.

Please read on below for the latest Camp Fire links.

Thanks for reading.

Anne

UPDATE: Death toll from Camp Fire rises to 86
https://www.redding.com/news/

Smoke, Wind Hindered Aircraft Fighting Camp Fire, Officials Say
http://www.capradio.org/articles/2018/12/11/smoke-wind-hindered-aircraft-fighting-camp-fire-officials-say/

Camp Fire: PG&E confirms damage to tower at blaze’s origin site
Bullet holes, damaged arm found where fire started, utility tells regulators
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/11/camp-fire-pge-found-bullet-holes-in-butte-county-power-pole-fallen-hook-other-damage-at-transmission-tower/

911 Camp Fire calls reveal confusing and chaotic moments
http://www.ktvu.com/news/911-camp-fire-calls-reveal-confusing-and-chaotic-moments

5-year-old Camp Fire survivor surprised with cop cruiser
https://www.kcra.com/article/5-year-old-camp-fire-survivor-surprised-with-police-cruiser-in-roseville/25508130

Debris removal for Camp fire could take up to a year
https://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-ln-camp-fire-debris-20181211-story.html

Camp Fire: Crews begin massive cleanup of hazardous materials left in wake of blaze
https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/Camp-Fire-Crews-begin-massive-cleanup-of-13451001.php

[OregonLuvr]

Just read this today, thought Anne might like it

Famed filmmaker Ron Howard filming documentary on Camp Fire
Oscar-winning director has family who once lived in Paradise

[BarbaraRose]

That will be very interesting! I am sure he will do an excellent, sensitive and compassionate job with it.

[Cudedog]

Well said, and I'll add, here is Sacramento region, we are at 70% of our usual rainfall for thus date in season.

Hi Velda. I have been thinking about your post quite a bit. As you know, living in Sacramento, there has basically been no more rain since the storm/s that ended the Camp Fire. I haven't been able to find the data (have you?) but I am thinking that by now we might be down to only 50% of our annual rainfall to date.

Scary.

Just read this today, thought Anne might like it

Famed filmmaker Ron Howard filming documentary on Camp Fire
Oscar-winning director has family who once lived in Paradise

Thanks for the info, Karen. I have also heard rumors that the PBS science tv show, "Nova", is also planning a special on the Camp Fire. I love "Nova", and think that they would do a fine job.

Unfortunately, the ramifications of this fire will not be over anytime soon. If ever.

In speaking to a few friends in my rock club who live/lived in Paradise (and had their homes burn to the ground) they estimate that they will not be able to return to Paradise for two to three years - if at all.

Between the requirement that lots (where houses burned) be "cleaned" of debris - much of it toxic - down to the "dirt", the difficulty in finding reputable help in performing this clean-up work, the difficulty in getting insurance settlements (one insurance company that insured homes in the area against fire has gone out of business due to the camp fire), the difficulty in getting permits to rebuild (building codes are changing due to this fire), the difficulty in finding reputable contractors to rebuild almost fourteen-thousand homes, the changes in building codes due to the fire, etc., etc., etc.

Picture this in your mind: each burned home - around 14,000 (fourteen thousand) of them, likely each will need an industrial-size dumpster brought to their lot before they can even begin to think about cleaning up.

I doubt that there are 14,000 of these type of dumpsters in the entire state. Maybe even on the entire west coast. https://www.wm.com/store/dumpster-rental/residential-landing.jsp

Notice that the 20-yard dumpster under this link, 3 1/2' x 8' x 20, is advertised for "small to mid-sized projects". Click on over and take a look at the 40-yard dumpster "They are ideal for larger interior home renovations, household cleanups and commercial construction or renovation projects."

And these things are not cheap to rent. About $300 - $800 per week (these are not the small dumpsters you see out behind the grocery store, but very large, industrial-strength dumpsters), depending upon size. Not fun to anticipate a large chunk of your insurance dollars (if you had insurance) being eaten up by dumpster rental.

Just one of the multitude of problems fire victims are facing.

Most of my rock club friends are people of around the average age of people on WomenRv. Senior citizens, in other words. Most are in their mid-50's to mid-70's. A wonderful couple that I spoke to told me that they had good insurance - that will pay for them to live in a motel room for up to two years. With their dog. They estimate that it will take that long to get an insurance settlement, clean up the lot, permits for a new home, construction time, etc. They are not sure they want to live in a motel room for two years so they can move back to Paradise - and in a few years perhaps face another fire situation.

I'm sure I would feel much the same way.

Recent Camp Fire update links are below.

Thank you.

Anne

California's largest utility provider could face murder charges for wildfires, AG [California Attorney General] says
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/30/us/california-fires-pge-charges/index.html

In limbo: From Camp Fire evacuee to prolonged homelessness
Drowning in red tape and financial distress, many Camp Fire evacuees face accumulating barriers to getting their lives back
https://www.chicoer.com/2018/12/27/in-limbo-from-camp-fire-evacuee-to-prolonged-homelessness/

Yuba-Sutter trailer thefts tied to Camp Fire
https://www.chicoer.com/2018/12/24/yuba-sutter-trailer-thefts-tied-to-camp-fire/

LIVING IN A FEMA TRAILER
https://www.actionnewsnow.com/content/news/Living-in-a-FEMA-Trailer-503586891.html

Lawyers open marketing blitz to enlist victims of Camp Fire
https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/Lawyers-open-marketing-blitz-to-enlist-victims-of-13497660.php

Entire family relies on strangers for help after losing homes to Camp Fire
https://krcrtv.com/news/shasta-county/entire-family-relies-on-strangers-for-help-after-losing-homes-to-camp-fire

Forensic search dogs sniff out human cremains in Camp Fire ashes
https://krcrtv.com/news/camp-fire/forensic-search-dogs-sniff-out-human-cremains-in-camp-fire-ashes

[JudyJB]

I was looking around for places to camp in northern California and noticed that Lake Oroville has reserved one of its campsites for Camp Fire refugees to stay in long-term. Thought you might find it interesting. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=462

I can't find the source, but I also read somewhere that they are considering new building codes to include metal roofs and siding and other changes, including landscaping.

I spent a week a few years ago in Buccaneer State Park in Mississippi that had just reopened after the big hurricane in New Orleans. This park was directly on the coast. Anyway, they had rebuilt all the buildings up on stilts, and even the electrical junction boxes (not the ones at each site) were about 10' in the air. It was very strange, but was intended to protect them from future storms. Any houses that were built after the storm were also on stilts, and some of the ones that DID survive had been raised.

So, I am guessing everyone will be rethinking how they built houses in fire-prone areas, which will also take longer and cost more.

[BarbaraRose]

That is so sad for those people. I think I would cut my losses and move on somewhere else. I am sure many have decided to do just that. Saw an article about one of the victims who moved to Palm Springs to start over there.

[MandysMom]

Barb, that sounds like a good idea in theory, but the majority of residents were retired, elderly, or working poor. If your house burns and you have a mortgage, your insurance may help rebuild, but you still owe on the mortgage, so how does one just cut losses and start over? Sadly that's not realistic for most. Add to that, many love their community and don't want to leave, ESP if their job is there or will be back in future.
It will be a long road back, but I'm betting Paradise will rise from the ashes.
Velda

[Cudedog]

01/04/19 Camp Fire updates:

As Paradise works to turn over a new leaf in the new year, the question remains: Where will the estimated 2 million tons of fire debris go?
https://www.actionnewsnow.com/content/news/Final-Day-to-Voice-Opinion-on-Camp-Fire-Debris-Site-503887671.html

Camp Fire survivors seek cash assistance from United Way
"United Way of Northern California’s offer of emergency cash relief for Camp Fire survivors has drawn nearly 9,000 applications. Through Wednesday, the agency had distributed 2,423 grants totaling $1,328,881."
https://www.redbluffdailynews.com/2019/01/03/camp-fire-survivors-seek-cash-assistance-from-united-way/

Butte County not euthanizing Camp Fire cats [and dogs]
"There are just under 600 animals, mostly dogs and cats, [still] being held at the old county hospital at 2279 Del Oro Ave. in Oroville."
https://www.chicoer.com/2019/01/02/butte-county-not-euthanizing-camp-fire-cats/

PG&E sued over Camp Fire as insurance claims hit billions
https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/fires/article223870985.html

Modeling the spread of the Camp Fire
https://wildfiretoday.com/2018/12/31/modeling-the-spread-of-the-camp-fire/

Numerous PG&E employees saw flames soon after Camp Fire started
https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/Numerous-PG-E-employees-saw-flames-soon-after-13501188.php

[Cudedog]

Barb, that sounds like a good idea in theory, but the majority of residents were retired, elderly, or working poor. If your house burns and you have a mortgage, your insurance may help rebuild, but you still owe on the mortgage, so how does one just cut losses and start over? Sadly that's not realistic for most. Add to that, many love their community and don't want to leave, ESP if their job is there or will be back in future.

It will be a long road back, but I'm betting Paradise will rise from the ashes.
Velda

Thanks for your post, Velda. This is very true. Paradise was one of the very few places in California where housing costs were within reach of lower-income people. That has probably now changed, with new, more fire-retardant building material codes going into place for reconstruction.

For myself, I am not so sure that Paradise will come back. I have not visited Paradise since the fire (and I will not do so) but having visited Paradise many times over the years, I know that it was a mid-sized (for a foothill community) friendly and bustling community.

Now, there is literally almost nothing left. Homes and infrastructure (electric, water, phone, services, groceries, banks, gas stations, medical facilities, veterinarians, stores, etc. - you name it) almost all gone as well. All covered by a layer of toxic ash (much of what homes are built of - electronics, insulation, roofing, etc. - is extremely toxic when burned).

People that I have spoken to, that had insurance, (and lost everything in the fire) are concerned that they will not have enough money to rebuild once they pay for the required clean up, and dollars spent just trying to survive until a rebuild can even be contemplated.

I hope that I am wrong on this. But even if (and when) the town is rebuilt, it might take five or ten years. A large proportion of the residents were seniors - 55, 65, 75 years of age. They may decide they don't have the time left to make the effort of starting over.

And one thing that can pretty much be taken as a given, is that, in the wildland/urban interface areas of Northern California (the town of Paradise is but one of these), fire will come again.

Part of Paradise previously burned in a fire in 2008. Most all of Paradise burned in 2018.

This from 2008:
Humboldt Fire threatens Paradise
https://www.orovillemr.com/2008/06/13/humboldt-fire-threatens-paradise/

But, it's like you say, Velda. Many, if not most, can't afford to "cut their losses" and go elsewhere.

Thank you for your post. Lots of food for thought.

Anne

[Cudedog]

I check links for Camp Fire updates almost every day, but I try not to post links more than once a week or so, as I worry the links might become boring or intrusive by being posted too often.

But one I came across this morning is definitely worth a read (This definitely hits me, where I live):

"After the fire: Blazes pose hidden threat to the West's drinking water - At least 65 percent of the public water supply in the Western U.S. comes from fire-prone areas, and wildfires can taint water with toxins and parasites".
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/after-fire-blazes-pose-hidden-threat-west-s-drinking-water-n954806

Plastics - like, for example, plastic plumbing pipes (widely used these days, even more so than metal pipes) when burned release extremely toxic chemicals. Many, if not most, urban interface wildfires happen in foothill areas. When homes burn, and rains come, these toxic chemicals are washed downstream into reservoirs and rivers.

Much of the tap water in my area comes from the Feather River (the water is filtered and treated, of course - but I don't know how much, or if this treatment and filtering is effective against - or is even designed for - plastic toxics).

The town of Paradise is upstream of tributaries of the Feather River, and branches of Oroville lake. Rain that falls in the Paradise area eventually ends up in Oroville dam and the Feather River. From there, it flows down to the area where I live.

I have always used a water filter for my drinking water since I moved to the Central Valley, mainly because tap water tastes like crap.

I think from now on, I will get a more expensive filter cartridge (I use one of those stand-alone large water "pitchers" (although it is not a pitcher, it holds about a gallon or so of water, and has a spigot on it - I keep it in my refrigerator, so that good-tasting - and clean - water is always "on tap").

I will also be more careful to fill Big Joe's water dish with only this filtered water.

Anne

[MandysMom]

Anne, check into a Berkey stainless steel gravity filter. Pricey, but filters last years, as long as you aren't dumping pond water through them. Berkey is certified water purifier, not just filtering. They ate used in third world countries on expeditions. We have had ours close to ten years, filter still good because we use it to purify city water. Mel and I noticed we drink more water run through Berkey than we drank when we drank tap water, "trusting" the city of its purity. It just tastes better. I have the travel size, I think it's 1.5 gallons and a much larger which does I think 3 gallons. I thought without Mel I wouldn't need the big one, but I'm finding I empty it about every three days. They make a plastic tank model too, which is BPA free and all that, but stainless steel is forever. Mel also got the sight glass for the side so we can tell when to refill and not be opening the top. Every so often I take the chambers, carefully remove the filters (commonly called candles) and wash well with dish soap and rinse real well. But because the chambers are stainless steel, no light comes in to promote algae growth. To me it's been worth the expense over the filter pitcher we used to use and were frequently changing pricey filters. Berkey also makes special filters for specific situations. There is a chart online at Berkey telling how mand different pollutants are removed including pesticides. The contaminants I worry about, and need to go back to Berkey to check on, are the drug compounds literally pee'd into our water which get recycled into drinking water eventually and are going up in levels such as hormones from birth control and psych drugs and chemo agents, none of which city facilities ate equipped to remove.
Velda
Velda

[JudyJB]

Anne, I know that they have blamed PP&G for some of the fires, but have they made any plans or instituted any changes to reduce the chances of fires being started by power company workers? (I know they are not running around starting fires purposely, but electricity does cause sparks.) I noticed that in some areas they were seriously considering turning power off during periods of very high winds, which might work but is not the best solution.

In Michigan where I am from, most residential power lines are buried underground, so I was surprised to see so many above ground in California and the west. Putting wires underground at least reduces lines being knocked down in storms. (Although it can cause other problems, as one of my neighbors once discovered as he was planting a tree at the back of his lot and tried to cut a stubborn "tree root" with a shovel. He knocked out power to the entire subdivision and was lucky he did not kill himself.)

[Cudedog]

Anne, check into a Berkey stainless steel gravity filter. Pricey, but filters last years, as long as you aren't dumping pond water through them. Berkey is certified water purifier, not just filtering. . . Mel and I noticed we drink more water run through Berkey than we drank when we drank tap water, "trusting" the city of its purity.

They make a plastic tank model too, which is BPA free and all that, but stainless steel is forever.

Velda, thank you. This is really good information. I had thought that what I have, the PUR dispenser (as can be seen from the photo, it is not exactly a pitcher):

https://www.amazon.com/PUR-Dispenser-Chlorine-Provides-Filtered/dp/B00IK5A4U8/ref=sr_1_6?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1546795866&sr=1-6&keywords=PUR+water+filter

was a purifier, but in looking at the description more closely, I see that it is just rated as a filter - although the more expensive replacement filters state that they remove a lot more contaminants, including lead . The Berkey is (as you state) a bit pricey, but looks like it would be worth it. I'll need to "save up" for it, but I should be able to bring it home in a couple of months. I might look into the plastic tank kind, if the cost is significantly less. I have had my plastic-tank PUR for eight years, and it is still going strong. I replace the filter about every two or three months.

When I first moved to the valley from the foothills, I found that I was not drinking enough water just because the tap water tasted so bad. Once I bought the PUR, the water tasted fine, so I began to drink a lot more (on edit: LOL. "Drink a lot more water") .

The contaminants I worry about, and need to go back to Berkey to check on, are the drug compounds literally pee'd into our water which get recycled into drinking water eventually and are going up in levels such as hormones from birth control and psych drugs and chemo agents, none of which city facilities ate equipped to remove. Velda

You are definitely correct on that one!! Not only are these things "pee'd" into the water, but most people, when they have left-over prescription pills - or, really, pills of any kind - just flush them down the toilet. Thus they enter "city facilities" totally fresh and unadulterated!!!

Ewww.

Again, thanks for the info.

Anne