Reply to Velda - Re: Itchy dog

[Cudedog]

Anne, what does Joe eat? That is where I would look first. I'm in several groups where eliminating inflammatory foods reduced skin issues, in people and some have mentioned their animals. Not knowing what Joe eats, that's where I'm starting. I've heard there is a wholistic vet in Lincoln, but don't know more than that. Myself, I've has good luck with Quercitin, for allergy, but not sure if it's been tried in animals. Might look that up. An all meat diet is the ultimate elimination/anti inflammatory diet. By the way, apples are high in Quercitin, but you can't eat enough apples to reach dose needed, so I buy mine on Amazon, Now brand.
Velda

Thanks for your response, Velda.

Joe eats the same diet all year round - it is only in the warm(er) months, when the grass is growing and things are blooming that he has the itch problem. Which makes me think the itching problem is environmental, rather than nutritional.

Joe's diet is this, more or less (well, I'll talk about it in a minute!). Unlike cats, who are strict carnivores, dogs tend to lean towards the omnivore side. Especially if given the chance and the choice. More years ago than I can count (LOL - and I can count quite a bit!) I had a really big veggie garden up in the Sierra foothills where I used to live.

My dog was loose with me in the garden, he didn't bother the plants, just slept in the shade in one corner most of the time I was gardening. Because it was the foothills, and because the foothills mean veggie-loving deer, my garden was fenced with field fencing and topped with barbed wire up to about six feet tall to keep the deer out.

One warm summer day I'm working away in the garden when, out of the corner of my eye, I see my dog dash by with a copious amount of red dripping from his mouth. It was definitely an "O.S." moment, for sure. I was convinced that he had found a stray, left-over piece of barbed wire lying in the garden somewhere and had chomped on it, injuring his mouth.

I chased him down, to see how bad the damage might be, dreading what I supposed to be my upcoming 80-mile-roundtrip to the vet.

Nope. Not barbed wire. LOL. Tomatoes!! The tomatoes were just beginning to ripen, and he had discovered them before I did.

Now, can you imagine one of your cats strolling through a garden and voluntarily chomping on tomatoes with great relish? I could be wrong, of course, but I can't imagine it.

I had to keep my dog out of the garden after that.

To answer your question, I feed Joe 1 part cooked chopped chicken, 3 parts cooked rice and 1 part cooked fruits/veggies (this is a mixture of pretty much equal parts chopped butternut squash, apples, brocolli, brussels sprouts, tomatoes - natch!, bananas, with blueberries or raspberries as a topping. I throw this veggie mixture into a deep glass bowl and lightly microwave the mixture until it is a bit soft - so as to avoid choking or intestinal obstruction).

I do not give him any commercial vitamin supplements formulated for dogs, because I have unhappily discovered in the past that adding these vitamins results in my dog breaking out in mast cell tumors after being on the vits for a month or so. This happened to me and my dogs more than once before I finally caught on.

Again, sell the client vits now, reap $tumor surgeries$ later.

Again, I feed the same diet pretty much year-round. Of late, as chicken has become more and more difficult to acquire, I have added a bit of Iams dog food to the rice/veggies. But this years allergy woes had already begun before I began adding in the Iams.

Thanks for the info on the Quercitin, I will research that. Thanks also for the info on the holistic vet in Lincoln. I am about 50 minutes to an hour from Lincoln, so the round trip including vet visit might be a 4-hour trip for me. But I will try to find out more info on this vet, and keep the info in my back pocket "just in case".

I did give Joe an warm water epsom salts bath/rinse last night as I mentioned I might do in an earlier post. Interestingly, he seemed to really like it, standing there in the bath tub totally still with his eyes half closed and a look of bliss on his face.

The itching seems a bit less this morning, too.

Thanks!!

Anne

[BirdbyBird]

Knowing that your boy is older it might not be something you want to do but over the years I have had two different dogs tested for environmental allergies. I think U of Michigan does them. My Golden Herschel was specifically allergic to specific grasses and trees and food mites...the microscopic mites in most dry kibble. I also had Josef tested but his were not nearly as severe. His worst was Blue Grass but most were mild..... If nothing else the reports are interesting and do let you get an idea of how pervasive those seasonal allergens are across multiple suspects......

I was told that if allergies were severe enough and not able to be controlled with meds that there are allergy shots that can be made up to address the specific allergens. All I thought was $$$$$ (Like my then three year old son that started his at a young age.)

[MandysMom]

Have you tried eliminating one of the fruit or veggies at a time. I'm not saying he's allergic or sensitive to a food, I'm saying all fruits and veggies have defensive chemicals such as oxalates (among a list of others). They can set off inflammation, which leads one to be sensitive to something in environment.
Allergy testing sounds expensive.
The Epsom salts, magnesium bath sounds soothing. Glad he enjoyed it!
Hope you find a solution.
Velda

[MandysMom]

PS, we had a cat who liked veggies and stole cherry tomatoes off our sunroom plant!

[BirdbyBird]

The allergy tests here in the midwest cost less than $200.....But at the times they were worth it to me as they gave me a better idea of what I was dealing with and how to proceed. I would think that certain allergens might best be defended against by different proactive responses...... Or knowing that the seasonal allergies are so pervasive that strengthening the over all immune system as you say is your only practical defense you want to pursue....

[Cudedog]

Knowing that your boy is older it might not be something you want to do but over the years I have had two different dogs tested for environmental allergies. I think U of Michigan does them..... If nothing else the reports are interesting and do let you get an idea of how pervasive those seasonal allergens are across multiple suspects......

I was told that if allergies were severe enough and not able to be controlled with meds that there are allergy shots that can be made up to address the specific allergens. All I thought was $$$$$ (Like my then three year old son that started his at a young age.)

TINA!! Wait!! STOP!!

Oops. Sorry, couldn't help myself. I hate it when people say that Joe is an "older dog", although they are right, of course. Joe turned seven in November - it hardly seems possible. My previous Stafford lived to fifteen, so I am keeping my fingers crossed. Joe is the love of my life - I can barely imagine life without him, especially now during this current 'situation', where he is my 'rock'. He came to me at three years old, after my previous Stafford passed - and I knew I didn't want a puppy. I had never before acquired an adult dog, and had a lot of trepidation - but I knew the breed, and I knew and trusted the man who placed Joe with me, so I "took a chance". Amazingly, it is as though he was made specifically for me - even more than the dogs I raised from birth! I still can't quite believe it.

EWWWW!! (LOL) Too much information! Mites in dry kibble?!? I never heard of that!!! Ugh!!

Good suggestions about the allergy testing - I am sure that U.C. Davis could do it, they are one of the premier veterinary schools in the country. Unfortunately, U.C. Davis is about a 5-hour round trip for me (including clinic visit time), so a visit there is a bit problematical. As a child I went through those allergy test things, so I understand what you are talking about. Probably more effort than I wish to expend during this 'situation'.

Another thing about allergy testing is if I had the testing done, and it turned out to be some environmental kind of allergy to something in my yard (probably some kind of grass) I still would have to let him out in the yard to exercise and to do his business.

UPDATE: Interestingly, after two days of the epsom salts rinses, the itching is significantly less, and the sores he had lick/chewed on his legs are suddenly and a bit unexpectedly healing!! If epsom salts is a possible solution, I'll TAKE it!! Luckily, Joe is a very short-coated dog, so he dries quickly. And seems to enjoy the baths - perhaps they really are soothing to him!

But man-o-man, am I going through the towels!!

THANKS, Tina!

Have you tried eliminating one of the fruit or veggies at a time. I'm not saying he's allergic or sensitive to a food, I'm saying all fruits and veggies have defensive chemicals such as oxalates (among a list of others). They can set off inflammation, which leads one to be sensitive to something in environment.
Allergy testing sounds expensive.
The Epsom salts, magnesium bath sounds soothing. Glad he enjoyed it!
Hope you find a solution.
Velda

Thanks for your input, Velda!

Yes, over time I have eliminated the rice/fruits/veggies one-by-one from his diet for a couple of weeks - individually, for each one-at-a-time, and also have eliminated all of the rice/fruits/veggies altogether for a couple of weeks. Made no difference - LOL - except he was pretty unhappy, and was begging for his veggies!

The allergy testing does sound expensive - and after the testing comes rounds and rounds of "de-sensitiving" (sorry, forgot the word) treatment. Probably not for me - but I'll not totally rule it out - just won't consider it now, during the current 'situation'.

As I posted above, the warm in-the-bathtub epsom salts rinses seem to be having a very beneficial effect! His lick/nibble sores are suddenly - and rapidly - healing (a bit of a surprise!) An added benefit is that these rinses are making his coat positively gleam.

Probably too soon to tell - but I'm hoping these rinses are a solution. Maybe it is just rinsing off the daily dose of allergen/irritants that he picks up running around the yard that is doing the trick, and the epsom salts are not really needed - who knows? These rinses don't seem to dry out his coat/skin like shampoo does.

I think I will continue with the epsom salts. Epsom salt (used in this way) is pretty much non-toxic, yes?

Keeping my fingers crossed!!

PS, we had a cat who liked veggies and stole cherry tomatoes off our sunroom plant!

OMG!! TOO funny! I can just see it in my mind's eye. I am happy to stand corrected!! Thanks for letting me know.

The allergy tests here in the midwest cost less than $200.....But at the times they were worth it to me as they gave me a better idea of what I was dealing with and how to proceed. I would think that certain allergens might best be defended against by different proactive responses...... Or knowing that the seasonal allergies are so pervasive that strengthening the over all immune system as you say is your only practical defense you want to pursue....

I think that probably these are seasonal allergies related to grass/plants (weeds?) growing in my yard that I mow as grass. The itching thing starts up as soon as the grass starts growing and things start blooming in the spring (generally early April), and doesn't end until the first rains come again (generally late October). It is almost like a light switch gets turned off - the first good hard autumn rain, and the itching is over for the year.

I have noticed that just running though the grass chasing his Kong (which is his favorite thing to do) will leave some kind of "residue" on his feet/legs, and belly (where he lies in the grass). If I take a white wash cloth and stroke downward on his legs after he has had a run, there is definitely some kind of brownish dark residue that comes off that I can see against the white washcloth.

I think I will continue with the daily evening-before-bedtime into-the-tub epsom salts rinses. In just the couple of days I have been doing this, I see a definite improvement.

I can only hope it continues.

I really don't know what else to do - I think I am done with allergy drugs. In researching, it seems that the way most of these work is that they suppress the immune system - never a good thing.

Thanks, ladies, for all of your thoughts and suggestions.

They are VERY much appreciated!!!

I LOVE this forum!! It is definitely keeping me sane during the 'situation'.

Best wishes to all,

Anne

[Cudedog]

An update on my "Itchy Dog" syndrome, in case anyone else here is experiencing the same.

Although it is probably too early to tell if my new efforts are having a real effect (I just started my new "program" on April 29, less than two weeks ago) I am happy to report that the raw and oozing itch/lick/bite sores on my Joe's lower legs have all healed (!) and although he still is itchy, the problem seems to be significantly less.

What I have been doing on a daily basis (I am not using any kind of drugs or shampoos - at all!) is just putting Joe in the bath tub and rinsing off his lower legs and belly (the areas with less hair to protect his skin) with warm water every night just before bedtime (the theory being that there are allergens on his skin that he picks up running around in the yard during the day - a bedtime rinse gives several hours - sleep time! - before he is again exposed to the allergens in my yard.

Added to this, about every second or third day I first rinse the parts above with epsom salts dissolved in warm water - then, after five minutes or so, I rinse off the epsom salts rinse.

AND. About once per week (or when he begins to seem more itchy than usual) I give him an "oatmeal bath". LOL. This is quite as messy as it sounds. First, I put a cup or so of oatmeal in my food processor and grind it to a flour-like powder. Then I put the powder in a bowl, and add a bit of water. Then I put the bowl in the microwave and microwave the oatmeal until it is just barely "sticky" (which happens when one cooks oatmeal).

Then - you guessed it - into the bath tub for Joe, and I smear this oatmeal paste all over his body (again, particularly on his belly, inside his elbows, the underside of his thighs, and his lower legs - again, the areas where he has the least amount of hair. I'm figuring that his more hairy parts protect the allergen from reaching his skin.)

LOL. This makes an incredible - but pleasant-smelling - mess. Also, Joe can't quite understand why all of this lovely oatmeal is being smeared around, and he is discouraged from eating any of it. Joe rather likes to eat oatmeal.

I leave the paste on as long as we both can stand it, then rinse well. Even when the oatmeal is totally rinsed off, it seems to leave some kind of residue that makes his skin and coat silky and shiny.

Is this scientific? No. Will it work for your itchy dog? I can't say. Is this 'oatmeal bath' easy to do? For me it is - but Joe is an extremely short-coated dog - I'm not sure this would be practical with a longer-haired dog. Is this 'oatmeal bath' easy to clean up? LOL. Not so much. Especially if he gives himself a shake while still coated (imagine oatmeal globs everywhere).

Does it seem to be working? YES. The self-inflicted itch wounds have healed (they were NOT healing with the vet-prescribed $$medicated$$ shampoo baths - the vet-prescribed $$allergy$$ meds worked - but my research showed them to have really frightening long-term side effects). Although he is still itchy (but not terribly so, as he was before), and I may need to continue this daily routine until the rains come again - November, maybe - when the annual rains start, I have found that the itching abruptly stops.

SO. Keeping my fingers crossed that this continues to work. Yes, it is a bit of a pain to give Joe one kind of bath or another every night - but if it helps him, it is worth it. And if he happens to eat a mouth full or two of the oatmeal 'wash' - no big deal. Joe thinks it tastes pretty good!

I would love to hear of anyone's home remedy for their own itchy dog. Thanks.

Anne

[Bethers]

Sounds like you found a solution. I'm happy for both of you. I'm not surprised about the oatmeal or the rinsing working. It reminds me when Peaches got new fleas daily from wild animals in a park that would wander under our rig nightly. The park graciously let me use the bathhouse shower where I bathed her daily until we figured out where/what was happening. Dawn dish soap was my friend.

[BirdbyBird]

Thanks for the update. In my dream house of the future I would like a dog rinsing area right inside the back "mud room" entrance like I saw in a dog persons post this past year.....it wasn't the raised tub that I want for full baths but large enough to walk the dog over to it and spray off their legs and feet. A girl can dream.