WILL THIS BECOME A TREND...

[OutandAbout]

THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE A POLITICAL THREAD IN ANY WAY. I'm just wondering if anything like this is going on in other parts of the country.

Background: I live in a rural subdivision, which is located right at the county line (Creek and Tulsa). My utilities are split between the two counties. Phone and water on one and electric and gas on the other.

I received a letter from the city in Creek county which has claimed us for fire protection, etc. It states that the city has passed an Outside Fire Run Agreement. This consists of a charge based on the size of your building and whether or not it is residential, commercial or industrial. For residential under 3500 sq. ft it will cost $150.00 for the year. If you do not pay the fee, should you require fire trucks YOU will be charged $675.00 per hour, per truck for these services. If you pay the fee, your insurance company will be charged that amount. The state statute permits the use of this agreement and mandates that we enter into an agreement with our fire department before renewing insurance policy on the residence. (Or buying a new policy) I understand that this is the result of the economy and really don't oppose paying a fee based being outside the city limits. I've lived here for 10 years and this is the first time something like this has been mandated.

Also the City of Tulsa is going to vote on whether or not to charge a person involved in an accident that requires the services of the fire department. The charge will automatically be billed to the accident victim's insurance, again per truck, per hour.

Any other areas having these kind of charges and fees tacked on to services that are paid by our yearly taxes?

Again, just asking not being political. Linda

[mitch5252]

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When we lived in DuPage County, IL, our property taxes had a line item for the Fire Protection District. No other charges per use. That was 7 years ago. I don't know if it's changed.

When we moved to rural TN, there was no "line item" for fire protection on our property taxes...we have to pay $50/year to the Volunteer Fire Department. If we don't pay and we have a fire, we will be charged - charged how much for what - I don't know. This year, when the $50 invoice arrived, we were asked if we would like to contribute to the purchase of the department's new fire truck, which, after the government's contribution, totaled $18,000. I figured I could help out!

We also have a dry hydrant on our property...the water trucks come when there's a fire in the area and suck the water out of our front pond. First time it happened (midnight, on a cold winter's night), I ran out to ask what was going to happen to all our fish! I was assured there was a screen over the intake hole!! I then brought them out some nice hot chocolate. That Damn Yankee (me) was the talk of the town for a few days!

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[VickieP]

Our property is rural too and is covered by the volunteer Fire Dept. So far there has been no fee. I remember a story on the news a while back, in another state, where a man didn't pay his fee and the fire dept. arrived to his home burning, but even tho he tried to pay at that time, they refused and were there to protect the neighbor's house from catching fire from his. I think I can see both sides, there is a shortage of money everywhere, but if they allowed you to pay when your house is on fire and they show up, then seems there would be a lot of people doing that.

[Bethers]

It seems to me I always have somehow had to pay for fire and emt protection - whether it came from my property taxes, or in another manner. Even when I lived in WI in a volunteer fire dept area, it came out of property taxes. And I know in one house, if we didn't cover the expenses, we'd have to pay to have them come out - including ambulance service. And in one place, if you called an emergency for an ambulance or fire and there wasn't one, even tho paid, you could be charged. It costs a lot to send all those vehicles out - so, no I'm not surprised - more surprised that it appears yours was free before this.

[VickieP]

Okay, so I went back and looked up our old Parish records, there was a $42. amount on the annual tax bill, BUT since Louisiana has Homestead Exemption and this is the only property we own, we pay no property tax, therefore no fee.

[Colliemom]

Mine too is covered under my property taxes. All our fire depts. are volunteer. Each township has one except for a couple two or three and they are under agreement with the County Fire Dept. based in Gaylord. There is a full time staffed EMS service in the county, but you pay charges when they have to come out to your house or wherever.

[avalen]

very interesting thread, I remember a few years ago there was a "neighborhood" that
wasn't contracted with any fire dept and when someones house caught on fire, everyone
had to stand around and watch it burn because no fire dept would respond. It was sad,
and I don't know what ever happened in that neighborhood to get some kind of contract
going for a fire dept. There are some things in life that we just take for granted, and
perhaps that one of those situations. There are many cases here locally that if you need
rescue, they will charge you for it afterwards. The "stupid motorist law" is one of them,
and another one in the summer when folks, usually tourists decide to hike Camelback
Mtn and don't listen to warnings on the news about dehydrations etc. They end up having
to call for rescue and it also puts the firemen in danger when they have to rescue somebody
off the mountain in 115 degree weather.

[dpf]

I remember the instance that Vickie was referring to also and found this news segment about it in one of our local news archives. http://www.ksfy.com/Global/story.asp?S=13282328 I think it was too harsh. However I have sat on the city council and do know that if we hadn't been harsh in some cases when people weren't paying bills or ignoring city ordinances we would have been jeopardizing the health and well being of others. Our property taxes include our support to the local volunteer fire district and amounts to about $54.00 a year. Plus they have two to three fund raising events every year that we always support. The funds they generate are used for training and equipment. DH was on the department for 25 years and is now an honorary member. I am considered an "at will" member of the auxilary. So both of us still help with their fund raising efforts: taking tickets at the annual dance, working at Vegas night, etc.

[Echo]

It use to be in days gone by, that a homeowner "paid" a fire dept a fee for fire fighting services. Which ever fire company you paid the fee to would post on the house a embalm showing a number and symbol of said company claiming that house. If you had a fire and 'companies' showed up the only one that would fight the fire was the company you had paid into. If for some reason 'your' paid fire company didn't show up? You were S.O. L.

I belonged to a small fire company in upstate NY where I grew up. I was a firefighter and EMT. And I do mean a small company. The property taxes we paid to the county included fees for fire protection and the county was suppose to equip and supply the VFD. Needless to say the main town in the county got good monies to supply their VFD and we as a small company got very little. And because we were such a small VFD we had fund raisers to help ourselves buy equip. Rummage sales, ham raffles, turkey raffles, Chinese Auctions, blind auctions, DJ dances, bake sales and door to door solicitations. We sold smoke alarms, candy bars, anything we could think of to help raise money for the dept. The company supplemented what we got from the county and bought not only equip for the fire dept side but also for those of us who were on the EMS side as EMTs. We were constantly looking for new members too. If a yearly fee was implemented to be paid directly to the dept that covers your area over and above the yearly fire taxes??? I would cheer the idea. I know people scream and cry about paying such high taxes and I can understand that. But those fire taxes and a yearly fee is so much cheaper than the loss of your house and everything you own. Yeah I know your 'paid fire insurance' will kick in for the losses but the way the insurance companies are playing games anymore??? And IF you DON'T have fire ins? Or for some reason it has lapsed?? That VFD is the only hope you have of saving anything. And I know from experience that a volunteer firefighter will do almost anything and risk their own lives without a second thought for the people in their communities they think of as their "friends and neighbors". For the simple fact that most of them are your friends.

So if you get a 'bill' for a fee to your local VFD??? Please pay without making them feel too bad. I can promise they will put it to the very best usage!!!

Boy! I really got on my soapbox, huh??? OK, I'm done now!!!!

[mitch5252]

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I agree about supporting volunteer fire departments, like our community's!

One of their annual fund raisers is selling fireworks. I think that's a hoot!
Make money and drum up business in one fell swoop!!!

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[OutandAbout]

I fully agree paying a fee to the VFD and am not questioning that. I am not under the VFD, but the regular city FD, which has decided to put limits on their general area and place the additional fee on the area outside this "general" label. Whether or not we pay the fee, we will receive service. It's just a matter of who gets charged for the call. I know everything has gone up in price and will go up even more as gas prices are rising as well. I plan to pay, but guess I just didn't like the way it was handled, the tone of the letter and not being advised the fee was even up for a vote. It gives off bad vibes.

Thanks for your input. Linda

[Liz]

I live inside the city limits and about a year ago the city started billing us about $15 month for fire services as part of our utility bill. As far as I know there is no further charge to me or my insurance co. if I actually have to use the services.

[flick4411]

This is an interesting thread...what I'm wondering is whether most insurance policies get charged if you live in one of those "chargeable" areas? And what if your insurance refuses to pay? Then do you still get a bill? I think stoopidty laws are ok. I just heard one this morning...sky diver didn't read his altimeter right, and he ended up in trees (would have gone splat if he hadn't hit the trees). But he got stuck and the rescue squad had to go up and cut him down. The county sent him a bill for $18K. He says it's unfair. Personally, I thought it was great. Why raise my property taxes because of stoopid people. But then again, would that mean we'd expect someone to figure out if a house fire was due to stoopidity--and if so, we send the owners a bill for fire support? Not sure if I think that's right either?!?

[sharon]

OK, so you made me go look at my tax bill for last year...nope, no charge for fire, but a lot for water bonds. I'm covered by the county fire dept. 'cause I live kind of in the country...anyway 25 years ago it was country, not so much now. I know as of 7 years ago we weren't charged for "house calls"...DH had what we thought was a heart attack, called 911, got the ambulance and fire truck here in 10 minutes and never got a bill nor asked for insurance cards. Unless they got the info at the hospital.

Linda, didn't know you were in the Tulsa area, my favorite Aunt and Uncle live there and I visit there almost every year except last year because they were in Albuquerque visiting my dad. Caught up with them there on my way home. But, I was in Fayetteville for a week...not so far. Why didn't you make the Arkansas GTG?

Do we need a locked area where we can post our where abouts and contact info for those of us traveling???

[Echo]

Do we need a locked area where we can post our where abouts and contact info for those of us traveling???

Hey that's a good idea Sharon!!! Contact info would maybe be PM's?? And I don't know how it could be locked either? Maybe Beth could figure it out. But your right about so many traveling in the spring, summer and fall. I know that some of us have by-passed each other and not known about it until a later date and had to say "DANG IT" if only we had known!!!

This would be a great separate thread!!!