PBS "Nova" Program Paradise "Camp Fire" Special

[Cudedog]

Have just posted a few of the latest links regarding the Camp Fire under the "Fire Just North of Anne" thread, including a link to the PBS previously mentioned special, for those who are still interested (scroll to the bottom of the page for latest links).

http://womenrv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17280&start=150

Direct link to the PBS special is here:

PBS: "Inside the Megafire", Wednesday, May 8
[This is the anticipated PBS "Nova" program about the Camp Fire check your local tv listings, can also be streamed online - Anne]
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/ins ... -megafire/

I spoke to a few members of my rock club group Sunday a week ago (these were people burned out by the fire, who lost everything) and they are saying that there is no rebuilding going on, despite what is being reported in the local newspapers.

Still a mess up there in Paradise, will be for the foreseeable future, I think.

Anne

[havingfunnow]

Thank you for the link -- I definitely want to see it.

[Colliemom]

Thanks for the heads up. It will be on our local PBS ststion here on the 8th.

[JudyJB]

Program is on tonight at 9:00 pm on Oregon PBS. They are also mentioning it on the PBS News Hour right now. (7:50 pm Pacific time).

[Cudedog]

Well, I watched the Nova program.

Although I had high hopes (the scientific research being done, as presented in the program, I found particularly interesting), overall I found the program incomplete, too brief, simplistic, and ultimately disappointing.

Why do I feel this way?

The three major California fires referenced in this program - the Camp Fire, the Tubbs Fire, and the Carr Fire - started, and mostly burned, in chaparral scrub land, and not in "forests" per se (tall conifer forests, as defined by the program).

Although I might have missed it, I don't think I heard the word "chaparral" mentioned even once. Dense, uncontrolled growth of chaparral here is one of the primary reasons California fires are so destructive.

Remember the bit in the program about the massive "fire tornado" they showed whirling around in the Carr Fire (Redding, Ca.)? That wasn't tall forest conifers burning, that was chaparral (I live fairly near Redding, so know it well). Redding isn't in the mountains (conifer tree country), it is in the Central Valley (chaparral country).

I am putting a bit of what I wrote on the "Fire Near Anne" thread (this part is from page 7 of that thread) below my signature, should anyone be interested. I talk a little bit about our weather here, and California's problem with chaparral. One thing that was mentioned (again, in reference to conifer forests) was that thinning must be done frequently for it to be effective. Because thinned and cleared areas just sprout new vegetation.

This continual "thinning" needs also to be done with chaparral scrub lands. The problem being, chaparral is much more difficult to thin, grows back much more quickly than do conifers (so needs to be "thinned" more frequently), and - and this is the main kicker - "thinned" chaparral has no economic value for resale. Whereas conifers, even quite small ones (think treated fence posts), can be cut as part of a thinning process, and then sold.

Can I see the logging companies here lining up to get their permits to "thin" tall-tree conifer forests? Absolutely. Can I see the same companies lining up to get out there and thin the chaparral? Never happen.

So long as one major causal element of the California wildfire problem is ignored (chaparral), it is highly unlikely that any real solution will ever be found.

Just my 2cents.

Anne

This is my repeated post from the other thread:

I am sure that many of you have read about the recent fires here burning over "dry grass and chaparral". This really doesn't sound so bad, does it?

No, it really doesn't. That is, if one only thinks of "dry grass" as something ankle high that one might easily walk through, and might be thinking of chaparral as some kind of low-to-the-ground bushes scattered randomly here and there.

The reality is quite different. Dry grass here, particularly in the lower foothills of the Sierra close to the area where I live, can be in vast stretches, going on for many miles, and many thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, of acres. This grass turns the state an emerald green in the springtime, after the winter rains have done their work, but in the summer months this grass can become so dry that it will shatter, rather than bend, when one walks though it.

The grass in these stretches, particularly if it is not grazed by livestock, usually grows to be four or five feet tall (or even six, depending on the amount of rain that it has received). It can grow so thickly that someone walking next to you through this grass, maybe just five or ten feet away, cannot be seen. The grass grows that thick.

And what, exactly, is "chaparral", anyway? Chaparral is a mixture of woody plant species, with the mix varying between areas. In my area chaparral is comprised primarily of manzanita, a dense, woody, hardwood shrub. That doesn't sound so bad either, does it?

Manzanita in my area (in the foothills) generally can grow up to twenty feet tall, in dense, impermeable, thickets, that (like the grass mentioned above) can go on for many miles, and hundreds or thousands of acres.

One cannot walk through an established manzanita thicket. The branches of the shrubs can be large (three or four inches in diameter - or more), the branches are very hard (manzanita is considered a hardwood) and inflexible, and these branches become inter-twined, creating an impermeable barrier.

Manzanita is not easily cleared by use of a chainsaw (manzanita does not "fall" like a tree does, because it is just basically a very large bush). To clear manzanita requires heavy equipment (think bulldozer or caterpillar) and a LOT of patience.

Manzanita is is often used for firewood here, because it is so readily available when one lives in the foothills, and so very flammable that it can be used for kindling to start a fire in one's woodstove, even when it is still "green" and unseasoned. One does not use manzanita in one's woodstove once the fire has been started - manzanita burns very hot, and very fast - and has been known to start more than one chimney fire here. Turning down the damper on one's woodstove (to slow the burn), while burning manzanita, does not always have the desired effect.

Another factoid is this: manzanita has so evolved in our fire-prone areas, that it's seed needs fire to germinate.

U.S. Forest Service: "Germination: Common manzanita seeds are dormant and germinate readily after fire breaks seed dormancy"

https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/shrub/arcman/all.html

There are many other plant species in chaparral as well, including scrub oak. Almost all plant species native to California are evolved to co-exist with fire. Scrub oak is also evolved to withstand hot and dry temperatures, and is also extremely flammable when it comes into contact with wildland fire. The word "chaparral" is derived from the Spanish word for scrub oak, "chaparro".

LOL. California Ecology 101. Sorry about that!

In any case, these kinds of conditions, and these kinds of plant ecologies, exist in a great many parts of the state, over vast areas. There are 33 million acres of wildland in the state. The problem we have here are not "forest fires" per se, but rather "urban-interface wildfires", where urban development (even small towns) have encroached into grass and chaparral wildlands.

The natural ecology, and the native plant species here, have evolved, over millennia, around the natural occurrence of wildfire.

Human communities, our homes and our structures - not so much.

[JudyJB]

Anne, I watched about two-thirds of the program and then lost interest because there wasn't much new. Mostly, they seemed to focus on the firefighters and how serious the fire was. Showed a lot of people trying to leave and coming back to burned houses--all of which we already knew!

There were some interesting parts about how fires spread, but as you pointed out, the examples involved tall pine trees in mountain forests.

And you are right about the loggers wanting to "thin out" the forests. In the late 1990s, my older son spent six months counting owls for "pre-sales" in the Olympic Peninsula for the Forestry Service. I learned that because the logging companies that owned chunks of land were cutting trees at younger ages and could no longer claim the forests were "sustainable," they changed the definition of "sustainable."

[Cudedog]

There were some interesting parts about how fires spread, but as you pointed out, the examples involved tall pine trees in mountain forests.

The program spent about 10 minutes or so (out of a 60-minute run time) explaining how wildfire burns faster and therefore hotter when running uphill. Which . . . I mean, doesn't everyone know that already? This is pretty much Wildfire 101.

And you are right about the loggers wanting to "thin out" the forests. In the late 1990s, my older son spent six months counting owls for "pre-sales" in the Olympic Peninsula for the Forestry Service. I learned that because the logging companies that owned chunks of land were cutting trees at younger ages and could no longer claim the forests were "sustainable," they changed the definition of "sustainable."

LOL. Sounds like your son was on the "front lines".

I'm posting a photo of California chaparral, this bit located near Santa Ynez, Ca. (this density and compaction of chaparral can pretty much be found over most of the state). The hillsides look lovely, don't they! Yes, they do. But what you see in the photo is not harvestable conifers - it is brush.

A few more problems with "thinning" chaparral (which, as I said, probably will never happen) is that chaparral can (and does) grow on very steep slopes, far from roads, even far from fire trails. Imagine trying to get a caterpillar up these slopes (people have died trying).

Another problem with the steep slopes, is when chaparral (or any kind of ground cover, which is what chaparral is) is "thinned" the hillsides erode - often badly - when winter rains come, contaminating downstream creeks and rivers with sand and silt.

As I said, I was particularly disappointed that Nova said basically nothing about chaparral, and how it is a major part of the problem.

Anne

[JudyJB]

My son spent 6 months counting spotted owls and only counted maybe 13. He would hike into an area where he was assigned for the day--wearing a yellow hard hat, yellow vest, and carrying a recorded hoot, two-way radio, and container of live white mice. He would play the recorded hoots and do some hooting himself. If an owl answered, he would keep hooting until he saw it. Then he would put a really dumb, tame white mouse on a nearly stump or log. Dumb because it usually just sat there without trying to run away.

Said owl would grab the mouse and fly off to his/her nest. Son would measure direction and head that way, repeating the hooting and white mouse baiting trick. Many times he would find the nest. There were no trails where he was going, so he had to climb over huge logs and force his way through heavy brush and across streams, and some lucky times through open forest.

In every case, however, if any of the "hooters" identified an owl in an area, they could not sell the timber, so he and the other "hooters" had to be careful not to identify themselves in town at restaurants and such. This was Forks, WA, which was full of loggers and businesses catering to loggers. Some places had signs in the windows saying environmentalists were not welcome! They lived in a building in the forest service facility at the edge of town.

Now, there were not many owls, but there were 6 guys wearing yellow hardhats and yellow vests, so the owls got smart and figured out that guys in yellow hardhats and vests fed you mice!! And these nice guys even hooted to let you know where they were! So, he said one day, an owl came and sat on a branch about 7 feet over his head. He had run out of mice, so had to radio for another person to bring him some. Would you believe the owl waited on the branch for over an hour while someone came with mice??

Another guy (these were mostly college students) got knocked completely over when hit from something from the rear while hooting. He had scratch marks on his helmet, so they thought it was a great horned owl. Great horned owls eat spotted owls, so probably thought he was a really big one??

My son had a BS in Natural Science but could not find a job around then, 1993, I think, so he did a lot of short-term summer jobs. Another was doing vegetation surveys on Mt Lemmon near Tucson and in the Chiricahua Mountains in northeast Arizona. He eventually got his teaching certificate and has taught biology ever since.

[Colliemom]

Anne, I felt the same way about the program. I was actually getting sleepy about half way through and just went to bed. Couldn’t get into it.