Fire just north of Anne

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Re: Fire just north o

Postby Cudedog » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:46 am

Colliemom wrote:Thanks for the updates Anne. Glad to know you are in a more agriculture type area that won’t burn, although stray embers could set structures on fire. I understand well the situation with wildfires as we have areas here in northern Michigan prone to same. The county to my south and also some to southeast as well as some areas of the U.P. contain many acres of jackpine forests. Those trees need fire to open their cones and release seeds to allow new trees to grow. They are also home to the endangered Kirkland Warbler who use the smaller low growth trees to nest. In past years,before people started really coming up north and building in rose forests and around lakes within them, it was common practice for officials to do “controlled burns” in those pines to regenerate new trees and establish habitat for the birds, plus clear out the undergrowth and dead stuff. Needless to say, since people started moving in, and knowing that “controlled burns” can occasionally get out of control, people burning when they shouldn’t, a spark caused by things such as you said or even by mom nature, there have Been wildfires which have destroyed homes and properties. Granted, not to a grand scale mind you, but none the less, maybe some outbuildings and a couple of ocassions, about 80 homes. Controlled burns aren’t done much these days as logging the trees and replanting with seedlings grown from seeds harvested from cones is more the norm now. There are still some wildfires each year, but have been confined to small acreages. The Michigan National Guard operates Camp Grayling here which is the largest military training facility of it’s kind in the country and the Range 40 complex as the Air to Ground Range is called, is about 7 miles or so from me. Our prime fire season is usually in spring after snow melts till things green up, that’s when it’s really dry. Well, this summer we had drought conditions and of course the military needs to practice regardless. They set off a fire on the range which burned around 1,000 acres. We got smoked out here and did have some ash coming down for awhile. They said it was a controlled burn, but the joke always is that an accidental fire becomes a controlled burn. It’s not unusual to have Range fires back there. The weather Channel was explaining some of the science behind wildfires and how they create their own weather within themselves, which is why you are seeing winds different than those within the fire areas. I like you am in an area where fires sren’t very comon due to the fact we have different forest makeup here. But in spring when it’s dry, grasses and leaves are susceptible. It’s wise to practice what is called “fire safe”, keeping leaves and other debris at least 50 feet from your buildings to keep a fire from spreading along the ground to your house or whatever. But for now, we have a blanket of snow, so no worries.


Thanks for your note, Sue. It's good that people understand our situation here. Generally, our fires are not in the spring (like yours are there) because November to April is our rainy season, so everything is moist and green in the spring. We don't have the kind of snow that you have there; major snow here only happens in the high mountains, generally above 6,000 feet elevation.

Sad update this evening. The television networks are reporting that the death toll from the Camp fire has now risen to 42, making it the worst loss of life of any fire in California history. This number may increase. There are still 258 people reported missing and unaccounted for who live in the fire area.

"I tell you, it's very, very hard. In some cases, the fire burned so intensely that it burned everything to the ground, and in some cases it melted the metal. In those cases it is possible the temperatures were high enough to completely consume the body."
- Kory Honea, Butte County Sheriff, as quoted in the Washington Post

As of Monday, fifty-two thousand people remain evacuated from their homes in the area of the Camp Fire.

Some harrowing stories are beginning to come out on in the news from the Camp Fire. This one is pretty amazing. And miraculous:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nurses-fleeing-fast-moving-camp-fire-scramble-save-patients-themselves-n934961

Anne
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby BarbaraRose » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:38 am

Wow! That is quite a harrowing story! I just can't fathom the terror and panic involved with all those people! Such a sad and tragic situation!
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Cudedog » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:32 am

Official CalFire incident update as of 11/12/18 @ 7:00 p.m. (Pacific Time)
http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/admin8327985/cdf/images/incidentfile2277_4212.pdf

Civilian fatalities: 42

Size: 117,000 acres

Containment: 30%

Expected full containment: 11/30/18

Structures threatened: 15,500

Single residences destroyed: 6,453

Single residences damaged: 36

Commercial destroyed: 260

Commercial damaged: 22

Other minor structures destroyed: 389

Fire engines: 622

Water tenders: 71

Helicopters: 21

Hand crews: 97

Dozers: 107

Air Tankers: Numerous firefighting air tankers from throughout the state are flying fire suppression missions as conditions allow

Cooperating Agencies: California Department of Transportation, California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, California Highway Patrol, California Office of Emergency Services, National Weather Service, California Conservation Corps, Butte County, City of Chico

The fire is still actively burning. Pray for rain.

Anne
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Colliemom » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:01 am

That was indeed a harrowing story. I can just picture it. I saw a horrifying video on the Weather Channel last night as well. It was taken from a vehicle, probably a rescue vehicle driving down a road in an area where the fire had gone through. You could see the lines down the middle of the road, but scattered haphazardly along this stretch of road, were burned out hulks of what had been cars some with a door open. They were people trying to escape the flames. Looking at those hulks of metal, you then realize the full extent of it. You can only hope those people miraculously escaped as did those nurses, or...... Too terrible to think about.
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Cudedog » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:16 am

Colliemom wrote:That was indeed a harrowing story. I can just picture it. I saw a horrifying video on the Weather Channel last night as well. It was taken from a vehicle, probably a rescue vehicle driving down a road in an area where the fire had gone through. You could see the lines down the middle of the road, but scattered haphazardly along this stretch of road, were burned out hulks of what had been cars some with a door open. They were people trying to escape the flames. Looking at those hulks of metal, you then realize the full extent of it. You can only hope those people miraculously escaped as did those nurses, or...... Too terrible to think about.


Thanks, Sue.

Many, if not most, of the videos I have seen have been recorded on cell phones by just regular people seeking to escape the fire (I am concentrating on the Camp Fire on this thread, because this fire is fairly near to me so I know where to go to find fire information). With the coming of the amazing video-recording capabilities of the smart phone, situations like this are brought to life (and into our hearts and living rooms) like never before.

Below is a link to a video recorded by a father, escaping with his young daughter, from the Camp Fire. Notice the terrible gridlock they are experiencing, traffic he is trying to navigate absolutely chaotic, sirens, flashing lights, smoke so thick it is difficult to see , with fire burning up to the pavement on both sides of the road (and, at times, fire blowing across the road), with incandescent sparks and embers raining down on their vehicle.

The man was lucky, it did not (seem) to take too long for him to get through the fire to safety. Others not so lucky - as the nurse described in the link posted above, traffic was at a complete standstill where she was, fire everywhere, her vehicle was on the point of itself catching fire.

Her only option was to get out and try to run, if she wanted to live. Imagine trying to run through the conditions shown in the video below, with no protective clothing, just regular (flammable) street clothes.

A final note: it appears that this video was filmed at night. This is not the case, it is so very dark because of the massive amounts of smoke generated by the fire. The fire started at about 6:30 a.m. Likely the evacuation was in full swing by 7:00 or 7:15 a.m.

https://krcrtv.com/news/butte-county/father-sings-to-daughter-as-they-escape-from-the-camp-fire

They are lucky to be alive.

Morning update, 11/13/18 (this from yubanet.com):

Structures Threatened: 15,500
Single Residences Destroyed: 6,522
Single Residences Damaged: 75
Multiple Residences Destroyed: 85
Commercial Destroyed: 260
Commercial Damaged: 32
Other Minor Structures Destroyed: 772

". . .Winds [today] will be much lighter and terrain-driven, however, northeast winds return overnight with gusts as high as 15 mph. "

Heavy smoke overcast at my house again this morning (the color of the sky is a light brown) with visible smoke hanging in the air. Visibility is about 1/4 mile.

When I went to the grocery store yesterday, early afternoon, many vehicles in my community had their headlights on due to the heavy smoke. And I am about 30 miles from the fire.

Anne
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby MandysMom » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:38 am

To add to what Ann says about how dark it appears, one of the Fire personnel stated that at one early point in the fire, it was moving at a burn rate of a football field distance (100 yards) per Second!!!!
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Bethers » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:56 pm

I'm having so much trouble watching these. It's heartbreaking. It's sad. It's devastating. There are really no words for how terrible it is.
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Cudedog » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:38 pm

Bethers wrote:I'm having so much trouble watching these. It's heartbreaking. It's sad. It's devastating. There are really no words for how terrible it is.

If anyone knows personally a person or family who is effected, my cousin would like to help a family. She prefers giving directly and had asked for someone?


Thank your cousin, Beth, for all of us. She is very generous. I have friends in the Cherokee area (just north of Oroville) that have evacuated out of their homes. There is a fire map posted on Yubanet.com showing the area, when I click down on the map I can find my friend's home (Cherokee is a rural area, I can only find my friend's home because I know the roads, and her home sits somewhat isolated on a bit of acreage, and I know the layout of her buildings, which helps me to recognize her home on the satellite view).

Luckily her home appears to be about two miles below where the fire is shown burning on the map. I believe that my other friend's homes are further from the fire than her's is. I am waiting to hear how they are faring; might still be a few days before I hear anything, because they are evacuated out of their homes and may not have phone and internet at their current location.

I saw a YouTube video earlier today, in which Butte County Sheriff Kory Honea while doing a press conference stated that the Camp Fire is the worst wildlands fire in the history of the United States (not just in the history of California). If anyone would like the link to this video, let me know and I will hunt for it. I watch YouTube on my tv, via my Roku box, thus a url is not apparant.

Update November 13, 2018, at 6:32 p.m. (This update is from the Chico Enterprise-Record newspaper in Chico, California. This update appears to be more current than the updates from my other sources).

https://www.chicoer.com/2018/11/13/day-6-grim-work-continues-on-camp-fire-californias-deadliest-ever/

. . . 48 dead (up from 42) and more than 8,800 (eight thousand, eight hundred) homes burned. [CalFire is stating 7600 residences, with 260 commercial buildings, burned]

. . . The fire has grown to 130,000 acres, and is still at 35 percent containment.

Containment still predicted for November 30.

. . . Fire personnel numbers have grown to 5,615, including air tanker crews that have been dropping retardant and water for fire suppression when conditions have allowed.

. . . It has been 212 days since the area has received any rain. Conditions continue to be dry although rain is predicted by Thanksgiving.
[Anne: I hope this is not just wishful thinking on the part of the reporter. I have looked, and I can find no indication of any rain predicted in my area by Thanksgiving. I hope I am wrong.]

Looters are now being seen in the fire area. Human nature at it's finest. (sarcasm)

The Butte County website (the Camp Fire is located in Butte County) appears to be back online. It was offline for a bit of time, presumably because of so many people attempting to access fire information. Lots of information here, including information on donations, both of supplies and monetary donations:

https://www.buttecounty.net/

I ran across a photo of a burned-out car, with melted aluminum (cooled now) flowing away from it. Likely the aluminum is from the car wheels, and also possibly from the engine block (some vehicle engines these days are made from cast aluminum). https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/10/butte-county-deadly-camp-fire-consumes-100000-acres/

This put me in mind of the statement made by Butte County Sheriff Kory Honea, that I quoted earlier (here it is again): "I tell you, it's very, very hard. In some cases, the fire burned so intensely that it burned everything to the ground, and in some cases it melted the metal. In those cases it is possible the temperatures were high enough to completely consume the body."

I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere (aside from this statement from Sheriff Honea) but with temps hot enough to melt aluminum, it seems possible that many people will never be found. With such high-temperature burning, not even enough left for the cadaver dogs to find.

Apologies for being so grim. But this is the reality of this fire.

Anne
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Bethers » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:01 am

Anne, it's so tragic. And my cousin was put in touch with a family... 5 houses and many people considering couples and kids... All lost their homes and everything in them. But they consider themselves lucky as they are ALL staying at another family members house not fat away... Think over 20 people in one small house.. But they are all alive and they and many of their neighbors are talking about rebuilding when it's over. Meantime... They are asking for people to consider, if possible, opening homes , etc for those displaced as many don't have a kindly relative to barge in on.
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby BarbaraRose » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:24 am

There is such a large number of people who are now homeless. Just so sad! And they have nothing but the clothes on their backs. I just can't imagine how they are feeling. I guess just being alive is cause for being grateful. But not only did they lose their homes and belongings, but possibly their cars, jobs and/or businesses. That would be very overwhelming and almost seem hopeless. I hope they can get good counseling on how to deal with it all financially, physically and emotionally.

The Woolsey fire in the Malibu/Thousand Oaks area is at 97,000 acres and now 40% contained despite the high winds today. There was one large flare-up today but it wasn't near any homes. Still only two deaths so far.
We are supposed to get some rain possibly later next week which will be good and bad. Very possibly causing large mud slides like they had in Santa Barbara right after the fires up there last winter.
Barbie, Romeow, and Sophie, missing Lola! (and lots of ferrets running around in my heart!)

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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby BarbaraRose » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:45 am

one of the Fire personnel stated that at one early point in the fire, it was moving at a burn rate of a football field distance (100 yards) per Second!!!!


That is amazingly fast! I cringe when people say "it is way over there and we are just watching it". They have no idea how fast that fire can move and can change direction on a dime. If you can see it, it is time to evacuate (or sooner).

That video of the dad and daughter was scary! He sure was calm and reassuring for her, but I imagine he was a wreck inside!
I would have just been crying!

I have seen photos before of burned cars where the wheels actually melted and ran down the pavement. Just like an incinerator!
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Cudedog » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:01 am

BarbaraRose wrote:There is such a large number of people who are now homeless. Just so sad! And they have nothing but the clothes on their backs. I just can't imagine how they are feeling. I guess just being alive is cause for being grateful. But not only did they lose their homes and belongings, but possibly their cars, jobs and/or businesses. That would be very overwhelming and almost seem hopeless. I hope they can get good counseling on how to deal with it all financially, physically and emotionally.


The President signed a Major Disaster Declaration late Monday afternoon (yesterday), so the FEMA troops already on the ground at the Camp Fire can now begin to assist individuals.

Anne
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Cudedog » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:08 am

Heavy smoke overcast at my house this morning, brown skies, visible smoke hanging in the air. Visibility about 1/4 mile. Very strong smoke smell outside, slight smoke smell indoors inside my home.

The fire continues to actively burn, but at a lesser rate than on days past because the winds have died down, at least for the moment.

The Los Angeles Times is this morning reporting that 223 people from the fire area remain missing and unaccounted for.

Morning fire update, November 14, 2018

From YubaNet.com (includes general fire information not posted here)
https://yubanet.com/Fires/camp/:

Size (acres): 135,000
Percent Contained: 35%
Estimate of Containment: Nov. 30, 2018
Personnel: 5,615
Structures Destroyed: 8,814

CalFire Evacuation Map for the Camp Fire
This map shows that the entire area of Cherokee, where my friends live, is under evacuation order
http://nifc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=41fe4499192a4e008a1d0c69a96d6284

CalFire Structure Status Map for the Camp Fire
http://calfire-forestry.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=5306cc8cf38c4252830a38d467d33728&extent=-13547810.5486%2C4824920.1673%2C-13518764.4778%2C4841526.1117%2C102100
(Click down on this map to get a feel for burned individual structures - graphics, not photos)

CalFire Incident Information page for the Camp Fire (lists current evacuation shelters - most of them full, road closures, general information on the fire)
http://www.fire.ca.gov/current_incidents/incidentdetails/Index/2277

I will post additional information regarding the Camp Fire as it becomes available.

Anne
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Colliemom » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:08 am

Saw a report yesterday that the Paradise Ranch was destroyed by the Woolsey fire. Awww. That ranch was the scene of many Hollywood films and TV series like Gunsmoke, Dr. Quinn, Medicine Women, the X Files and HBO’s “Westworld” was in production at time of fire. Another piece of history gone.
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Re: Fire just north of Anne

Postby Cudedog » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:56 am

Morning update 11/15/18

Rain is tentatively in the forecast for the end of next week. If it comes - and it well may not (often predictions of rain here are overly optimistic) this will make the arrival of our first rain of the season approximately six weeks later than normal (rains usually begin early to mid October).

As noted earlier, no appreciable rain here since April.

Lots of smoke hanging in the air this morning, the light levels suggest evening twilight, not bright early morning. The smell of the smoke, and the amount hanging in the air is greater than on previous days. Smoke overcast in the sky very heavy, the sun at 7:32 a.m. (PST) looks like a glowing orange ball hanging in a layered brown sky.

It looks very strange, almost apocalyptic.

Confirmed death toll now stands at 56, with the possibility this number will increase. There are more than a 130 people still missing.

Many harrowing videos posted on YouTube showing gridlocked vehicles trying to escape the fire, with fire on both side of the road, and also blowing across it, under and around vehicles.

As of this morning, the fire is still actively burning, but at a lesser rate due to the absence of strong winds.

From CalFire http://www.fire.ca.gov/current_incidents/incidentdetails/Index/2277 last modified this morning, 11/15/18:

Acres Burned 140,000 acres

Containment: 40% contained

Structures Threatened: 15,500

Structures Destroyed: 8,756 residences, 260 commercial

Injuries: 3 injuries

Fatalities: 56 civilian fatalities

Cause: Under investigation

Cooperating Agencies: California Department of Transportation, California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, California Highway Patrol, California Office of Emergency Services, National Weather Service, California Conservation Corps, Butte County, City of Chico

Total Fire Personnel: 5,473

Total Fire Engines: 620

Total Fire Crews: 101

Total Helicopters: 24

Total Dozers: 105

Total Water Tenders: 75

Conditions: The fire remained active overnight and firefighters continued to use various suppression tactics to attack the fire. As conditions allowed, firefighters were able to conduct back-firing operations assisting with securing the fire perimeter. Throughout the day firefighters will continue suppression efforts around the fire using both ground and air resources as conditions allow. Firefighters will strengthen and improve containment lines while also patrolling the interior of the fire to extinguish the hot spots that still exist.

From the CNN website https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/us/california-fires/index.html

. . . Hundreds of rescue personnel dressed in white overalls are sifting through smoldering rubble and mangled cars, searching for human remains

. . .In the Camp Fire's devastating aftermath, cadaver dogs, deputies and coroners are searching the ruins where Paradise, a town of 27,000, once stood.

. . . With at least 130 people unaccounted for and the number expected to rise, investigators will start collecting DNA samples from relatives of the missing Thursday. More than a quarter of Paradise's residents are senior citizens, and most on the list of the missing are 65 or older.

. . . The somber search for the missing in Butte County is painstaking. It involves 461 people and 22 cadaver dogs in Paradise and in parts of the communities of Magalia and Concow, authorities said. Dozens of National Guard troops have joined the search effort, Collins said. Once they find the remains, with the help of forensic experts, the coroners are sent to recover them.

. . . "They are going to be searching vehicles that have been burned. They'll be searching residences that have been burned. Checking around the residences .... our mission is to find the victims from this fire, recover them and get them identified and notify the families to give them some answers."

. . . "It's not just the area; it's the number of homes, the number of trailers, the multistory buildings. All of that changes the complexity of this operation," Collins said.

~Anne
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