Mountains and Brakes

[MelissaD]

Thought it was time to put this topic in a thread of its own. Snub or stab braking is a technique to safely descend a mountain grade . Here's a video by Eaton Corp who make axles and brakes for big trucks. When I was at Schneider National, Bendix Brakes and Schneider took a couple trucks to Grapevine Hill in CA and ran tests of the best way to control trucks speeds and brake performance. Wired those trucks up with all kinds of sensors. From that, they taught use stab braking. This same technique works for RVers. Disc or drum brakes it's the same technique.

Snub/Stab Braking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbtUdgbg0Nk

Air Brakes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R7J9BIjNEw The air brakes on a Class A are the same as on a bus.

Just remember, going down grade it's about safety and not a race. Speed limits are often also based on gross vehicle weight. Heavier you weigh, the slower you descend.

[havingfunnow]

Thanks, Melissa! I don't know how I missed this earlier. Related question: Is there any set of maps or aps that are particularly good at identifying grades?

[MelissaD]

Mountain Directory West and Mountain Directory East http://www.rvbookstore.com/mountaindirectory.html

http://mountaindirectory.com/

[havingfunnow]

Thank you!

By the way, I'm looking forward to meeting you in Michigan this summer.

[MelissaD]

I'm looking forward to MI as well. Want to put actual faces to posts (so to say). Vacation is approved and the camper is in the shop getting some things fixed for the spring

[Cudedog]

Interesting topic, Melissa!

Many years ago my mother gave up her home of 20+ years in the Southern California area of Los Angeles (it broke her heart, I think, but she had to sell) and moved herself and all of her belongings to Northern California. She drove with her companion in her car, I drove the U-Haul by myself, which was the largest U-Haul moving van rented by U-Haul. And the largest vehicle, I think, that I have ever driven. It was huge. We crammed it full to bursting with all the lifetime accumulation of furniture and belongings and stuff from her 4-bedroom home.

It was one heavy load.

Anyway, having lived in California most of my life, and having driven the "Grapevine" (north-south California freeway Interstate 5) many times in a passenger vehicle (which is scary enough!) I well knew what I was in for. "Grapevine" is a very accurate description of this road. It goes over a fairly high mountain pass into the flat central valley, twisting, turning, descending nearly 4,000 feet in the space of only about 4 miles!

Check out this scary video (is there anything that is not on YouTube?) of the Grapevine, if you would like a taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFn2YYyub2c

I tell you I had been sweating bullets for days as we were packing, knowing that I would have to drive this scary stretch of steep downhill freeway.

Got on the road, traveled in tandem for an hour or so, but as we hit the Grapevine downhill grade my Mom just zoomed off in her car at the normal speed limit. I just let them go - I was pretty much scared spitless (sweaty palms doesn't begin to describe it), but I never mentioned it to her (either then or later).

Purely by instinct, I guess, I used the braking technique that Melissa described - not riding the brakes (I did know that if my brakes got overheated I would be done for), but making a "stab" now and again on the brakes to reduce speed, trying to keep things slow and even. I also kept the truck in a lower gear. To my great relief, this worked just fine, no overheated brakes or anything.

Not too good for my Mom, though.

She had pulled over at the bottom of the grade waiting for me and was in a total panic, thinking that I had crashed somewhere on the grade. She had been waiting at least fifteen minutes for me (her speed had got her that far ahead). I pulled over when I saw her, and she was in tears. She wanted to know why I didn't "keep up" and if I was trying to "scare" her or something. I didn't try to explain (I was still getting over a pretty darn good scare myself!) - she was too upset, this was early in our trip - so just smiled and said that I thought it had been better for me to go a bit on the slow side, sorry I had worried her, and left it at that.

Thinking back on this story I don't know why I decided to go slow and brake like this - it just seemed like the right thing to do. Got lucky, I guess. Also, it didn't escape me that the big rigs (there were a lot of them - there always are on the Grapevine) were going as slow as I was, and their brakes weren't smoking either. I took the hint!

Even today, Grapevine is not a road I would choose to drive if there was an alternative.

Usually there isn't, because Interstate 5, of which Grapevine is but a small part, is the major (and only) North-South artery linking California to Washington. For those who drive the Grapevine with any regularity one can almost always see some smash or another on the side of the road where someone has lost their brakes. And not just the big rigs.

Anne

[MelissaD]

I use to take students drivers (just passed truck driving school) in the truck with me out of Montebello CA (Los Angels area) and head north on I-5. I'd walk them through down shifting and use of the Jake Brakes as we went over Grapevine. At the bottom on the hill I'd ask them to read the sign which stated "Grapevine". Most never realized they had just gone over "Grapevine" until they were over it. All had heard the stories of Grapevine but once they realized they could do it, most calmed down a bit.

Scariest for me was US-6 (Loveland Pass) eastbound, which is the hazmat bypass for the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70. Peaks at 12,000' (11,990'). Remember I had NPR on the radio and the guy was talking about parachuting at 13,000' and me thinking another 1,000' and I could just parachute. It was July and there was still 3' of snow on the side of the road. No guard rail, white line, 6narrow shoulder and 3-400' to the trees below. You do a horse shoe turn at peak (180) if memory serves and you can't see the edge of the road over the hood and 1,000' below you can see Eisenhower Tunnel and the trucks look like Match Box models. Nope, won't do that one again.

US-50 from Pueblo to Grand Junction CO is also pretty but I won't do it in a big truck again.

[Bethers]

I know Grapevine well. Lots of people think that if they always stay on the interstates, they'll never see those kind of grades. Wrong! Glad you made it safely and did it the right way without any knowledge for sure that it was the right way, Anne.

Melissa, in 1971, in a car, through the Rockies, I remember needing to shut my eyes during the daytime when my g/f would drive those roads without any guardrails, way too fast for me. At night I handled it better because I couldn't see the sheer drops, etc. She hated me driving them because I'd go so slow! I would have never wanted to do it in a truck. I've been on a few of them now in my rv, but the guardrails on almost all of them help me some (actually help me quite a bit!) I'm thinking they were much narrower then, also. Our road system standards have changed. Maybe it's why the narrower roads in some areas of Baja didn't bother me - none came close to those CO mountain roads that I'll never forget.

[Cudedog]

I know Grapevine well. Lots of people think that if they always stay on the interstates, they'll never see those kind of grades. Wrong!

Another "fun" grade is Interstate 5 (freeway) in Northern California coming down the steep and twisty grade from Mt. Shasta (volcano) to Redding. The road drops about 4,000 feet.

That one is a bit of a nail-biter in places too. Beautiful drive, though. I have driven it many times.

Have any of you ladies driven this one, and how do you think it compares to Grapevine?

Anne

[Bethers]

Anne, I've done 5 several times - a couple in the rig. I can't say how to compare, other than both are steep. For me, doable. I know many who would not drive either route, even in a car!

[MandysMom]

We have driven both in our rv, the I-5 from CA to Oregon and back and the Grapevine. To me 5 is worse and ESP coming south out of Oregon. But, that said, being cautious, following suggestions already made to not let the speed get ahead of you, it is doable. We did find another route to avoid I-5 coming back south from Oregon, which we liked and would do again. I forget where we turned off but it took is east into and over mountains where the route was not as steep and was quite scenic for most part. We overnighted in a rest stop which was very quiet up in the high desert and FREE, and I like free! Lol
Velda

[MandysMom]

Beth, just noticed your comment re some people not doing either route in a car. My Mom and I and part of time Dad ( when he had vacation that coincided with her teaching schedule) drove the grapevine more times than I can count and never gave,it a thought and most of those I-5 did not exist! I can remember one hot summer day when Mom and i had to stop to let the old Dodge cool down after the first big climb up the Grapevine from the valley going south. Ditto with trips north to Oregon and Washington in summer for vacation, no I-5 existed! What we wanted to see or people we wanted to visit were on the other side so we went. One memorable trip, I was 12, it was 1960, the summer of the Worlds Fair in Seattle. We had a Ford Falcon station wagon. Parents up front and a small rectangle in the very back driver side corner, where I sat all scrunched up with my books and stuff within reach. No one had water bottles then, we drank water at places where we stopped from our gallon metal camping jug. No electronics for navigation or games much less phones. One of those very best memories in my life. Great trip. We stayed in Seattle and visited the fair for,most of a week then headed north and drove as far as mile ONe of the AlCan highway before heading back south on Dads 3 weeks off. Great memories and I am sure I learned from those trips to not fear roads, just do what was needed to get it safely done.
Velda

[MelissaD]

I ran I-5 from LA to Seattle several times. In a big truck I have actually driven about every mile of interstate from end to end. There are a couple of pieces I-15 north of Great Falls MT and I-29 north of Fargo ND that I'm missing and there are probably a couple of pieces in NY or VT by the border I'm missing. Problem is, in the truck you normally drive by and don't get to see or experience the area. The older I get the more I enjoy the US routes.

Never did chain up. I'd always park until the weather changed. Putting tire chains on a big truck always reminded me of a bunch of good ol boys saying "hay you all what this!"

Mountains didn't bother me much unless there was weather or they ran you right on the edge/ledge. Don't like high bridges either. The older I get the more they bother me.

[snowball]

My dad took us on a couple of trips other than visiting the grandparents in the black hills...on of what my sister called "7 day wonders" he was a rancher and couldn't stray from home very long nor very often...so one trip was from Jackson Wy into Or assume around Bend as we went to one of those lumber towns can't think of the name of it now to see the aunts and uncles then to Crater Lake..and then into CA down Highway 1 it was foggy and you looked down into the rocks and up into the cliffs...gulp my brother was a worrier and finally my dad said Bob if you are nervous eat an apple (for some reason they let us bring the apples in at the agi check had gotten them a mile up the road) he did he eat 5 in 5 minutes or at least it seemed that way that was oh so long ago when I was in high school
fun memory though...
sheila

[cnq50b]

Thanks for posting those videos, Melissa.

The one on snub/stab showed that my instincts were right (of course, my innate fear of long descents helped! ) I make sure I start the descent at the speed (actually lower) I want to maintain downhill then control it my using my brakes when needed to get it slowed down again. What I didn't know is to not downshift during the descent - get it in the right gear before starting down. My van is an automatic but I do have a downshift option - just have never used it. Now I know to not try it if I'm gaining speed going downhill. Thanks!

I took I-5 from WA down to LA a couple of years ago. Even though it had a couple of scary descents, I thought having multiple lanes was in my favor (I come down in the truck lane - trying to stay behind the slowest one of the bunch ) . If there is a better route, I'd love learning about it. Once I have more time to roam, I have a feeling I'll be going between WA to see my brother & my kids in Cali more often. Velda, if you can remember what alternative you took, I'd be interested in considering it.

Love the wisdom on this group!
Catherine