Frustrated...

[judi]

HIPAA laws are very strict. A relative may give info to the doctor, but the doctor may not give patient info to anyone unless the patient has been declared incompetent and a legal medical power of attorney has been assigned. There is a difference between a power of attorney and a person legally assigned to make medical decisions for a patient. Just because the doctor is 76 doesn't mean he shouldn't be practicing medicine. As an RN it sounds to me like the doc was following the law, and maybe he chose to let your dad go through the process of taking the tests, etc. If he couldn't pass, then that would be the end of it.

When we became aware my mother's declining driving skills we contacted the DMV. They sent my mother a letter saying because of her age she would need to take a driving test. She knew she wouldn't pass the test so she quit driving. One of her hands was very weak and her eyesight was poor. It was all anonymous, thank goodness!

[dayspring39]

Oh Barbie what a dilemma you are all in. My heart goes out to you. I have no wisdom as I am almost 75 myself. But I do not drink and even with bad cataracts (they come out in June) I never drive at night.
I do not even know how to tell you to let it go. All I can say is I am so sorry and I send you a huge hug.

Me and My Shadow are sad right now

[BarbaraRose]

We aren't expecting the doctor to tell us anything about my dad (patient confidentiality), but for us to be able to tell him what is going on that he isn't aware of. My dad tells him what he thinks the doctor wants to hear and avoids things he doesn't want the doctor to know about. We should be able to at least talk to the doctor about our concerns so he can make better assessments and decisions for my dads best interests.

[snowball]

We aren't expecting the doctor to tell us anything about my dad (patient confidentiality), but for us to be able to tell him what is going on that he isn't aware of. My dad tells him what he thinks the doctor wants to hear and avoids things he doesn't want the doctor to know about. We should be able to at least talk to the doctor about our concerns so he can make better assessments and decisions for my dads best interests.

and I would think he would appreciate the input....good luck Barbie
sheila

[JanetA]

BARBIE!!

I dealt w/ a similar situation. My dad was drinking and driving and we had to make him stop,, which he did,, reluctantly,,, and about 2 or 3 weeks later, he landed in the nursing home, due to too many falls in a short period of time (6 in one weekend) I couldn't keep him from walking around the house and losing his balance,, even with his walker. I also had my mom in my care too. SHe and I and the doctor and the ambulance service all agreed and he went directly to the hospital,and then to the nursing home.

The point is,, I talked to my mom and convinced her of the fact, that if daddy hit someone and either injured or killed them,, she stood the chance of losing her finances and home, due to a lawsuit. The liability of letting someone who is NOT responsible to be driving is NOT going to end well,, so why take the chance. Not only the fact that your conscience could not live w/ it,, the financial reprecussions will be worse than catastrophic.

THAT is what you are looking at as a possibility to face. Think about it. Talk to the neighbor about this and also the police. I would venture to say your dad is NOT licensable (if that's a word) and measures should be taken to keep him from driving to protect him AND the public safety. He is not capable of making the decision. The fact that you have POA...makes all the difference. Medically and legally, I presume?


been there,,,, Janet

[Phoenix]

Get a good lawyer separate from one your dad uses, talk to them about what is going on, you may be able to compel your father into having test done to determine his state of health. The courts will normally assign a doctor for this to be done in place of the physician the patient normally sees. I'll warn you this will piss your father off to no end, and you may become his conservator. Just be prepared for the consequences, of trying to protect your father from himself.

[BarbaraRose]

My dad says the neighbor has been avoiding him and not willing to help him, so that is good. We will be keeping a close eye on him to make sure he doesn't get his car fixed. My brothers may have to do more "damage" to it. The car isn't worth much so if it is damaged beyond repair, no big loss as far as the car is concerned. He can't afford to buy another car, so that might put an end to it there. Will talk to my brothers about that.

[retiredhappy]

Judi, I disagree that the doctor is only following the law. Since at his age he is facing the same possibilities I don't feel he is using good judgment. He should be talking to Barb's dad about giving up driving before he kills someone. Some doctors believe they are Gods and can do no wrong.

[judi]

Karen, unfortunately there is no law against bad judgement. And I don't disagree with you regarding the doctors talking with patients about driving. Who knows - maybe his doctor did talk with him about it. However, there are many drivers "that age" and older who are perfectly safe and skilled. I also don't disagree about some doctors thinking they are gods - I was married to one such "god" for 28 years. He even thought he knew more about my profession (architecture) than I did. Really, if you call the DMV and ask for their help, they have ways to require testing. Many years ago when seat belt laws were first enacted, my husband (the god doctor) was too lazy to put seat belts on our kids. I called the police, and they had me call them when he pulled out of the driveway with the kids in the car, and they pulled him over and gave him a nice big ticket. We lived in a small town, and they made him get out of the car and take a drunk test within full public view - a great practice builder for an eye surgeon! But I did what I had to do for my kids.

[Phoenix]

Karen, unfortunately there is no law against bad judgement. And I don't disagree with you regarding the doctors talking with patients about driving. Who knows - maybe his doctor did talk with him about it. However, there are many drivers "that age" and older who are perfectly safe and skilled. I also don't disagree about some doctors thinking they are gods - I was married to one such "god" for 28 years. He even thought he knew more about my profession (architecture) than I did. Really, if you call the DMV and ask for their help, they have ways to require testing. Many years ago when seat belt laws were first enacted, my husband (the god doctor) was too lazy to put seat belts on our kids. I called the police, and they had me call them when he pulled out of the driveway with the kids in the car, and they pulled him over and gave him a nice big ticket. We lived in a small town, and they made him get out of the car and take a drunk test within full public view - a great practice builder for an eye surgeon! But I did what I had to do for my kids.

Are you coming to KS? I would love to meet you.

[FancyFree]

Agree with Sandi - tell the neighbor to stop "fixing" the car. The fall out from that is minimal compared to dealing with the results of a horrible accident. While your father is not drinking, he will have to deal with not passing his tests leaving you out of the equation - and, who knows, maybe he will never take another drink the rest of his life - it could happen, right? But, if he does take another drink, the car will be inoperable.

Helping a parent to work through the challenges of aging can be so difficult and painful; some things that might help - patience, love, kindness, humor, a confidant that you can unload your emotions on, a united front with your siblings, remembering the good times with your dad, looking back on your dad's life to help you understand why he is the way he is today, accepting and responding to the person he is (as opposed to the person you want him to be), and remembering that this time of his life is coming to an end (probably sooner than you and your brothers would choose) and try to make the most of the time you still have with him.

Really didn't mean to go on so -
Fancy

[judi]

Phoenix - I'm leaving Portland for Alaska on June 21 so not coming to KS. There are so many folks on this site that I would love to meet! Someday...

[BarbaraRose]

Helping a parent to work through the challenges of aging can be so difficult and painful; some things that might help - patience, love, kindness, humor, a confidant that you can unload your emotions on, a united front with your siblings, remembering the good times with your dad, looking back on your dad's life to help you understand why he is the way he is today, accepting and responding to the person he is (as opposed to the person you want him to be), and remembering that this time of his life is coming to an end (probably sooner than you and your brothers would choose) and try to make the most of the time you still have with him.

Really didn't mean to go on so -
Fancy

I agree with this completely! I do try to keep all this in mind while I am with him and try to be very patient and understanding, unlike my brothers who aren't very good at either one.

[Riafromnj]

My understanding of a medical power of attorney is that the document allows the designated person to make decisions on you behalf when you are no longer capable to do so (in a coma, stroke, severe dementia, etc.). It is not in place to override decisions made by the patient, no matter how foolish they are. I am sure the doctor tested you father in terms of his ability to understand and make decisions. Many patients know how to "snow" their MD's when it comes to drinking.
I give you a lot of credit for trying to get your dad to behave safely and consider others he may injure or kill. A dear friend of mine is in the ICU this week after getting hit on her scooter by an 86 yr old lady who ran a stop sign.

[BirdbyBird]

You are correct about who gets to make decisions. As one physician commented when I was concerned about my father being released from the hospital and his safety returning and remaining at home. He quietly said that my father was still competent.....to make his own bad decisions......