Ice in Death Valley & a Coyote Close-up

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Re: Ice in Death Valley & a Coyote Close-up

Postby Cudedog » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:48 pm

JudyJB wrote:The problem with the burros is that no one hunts them like they do with the deer, and the deer are losing habitat and in numbers to the burros. They also don't have as many predators as the deer do so there is little control on their numbers. Got to be sympathetic to the deer also.


The same predators prey on deer as on burros - except for humans. Too few deer, curtail deer hunting by humans.

Deer and burros are not directly competitive. They do not eat the same things - deer are primarily browsers (they eat twigs, leaves, berries, acorns, etc. - being ruminants - four stomachs - they can more easily digest such things). Burros are primarily grazers (grasses) - they have one stomach.

It seems to me that the BLM puts out a fair amount of misinformation about this, so that they can have a reason to round up/shoot the burros. The same kind of BLM misinformation is put out about wild horses. It is often stated that wild horses need to be removed from BLM land because the horses are overgrazing and thus damaging range land. Now when a person hears about this overgrazing and wild horse round ups they might be thinking how good it is for the range land to get rid of those pesky wild horses, so the range land can be wide open and empty and free as it once was.

But. . . not so fast. Range land is not left empty - dirt cheap grazing leases are sold to ranchers so that thousands of cattle can be put on the range land instead. So the story goes out that a few hundred horses destroy the range, and ten thousand cattle do not.

Anyone buying this story about horses vs cattle? Yes? PM me. I have a really nice bridge that I would like to sell.

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Re: Ice in Death Valley & a Coyote Close-up

Postby Bethers » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:54 pm

Can I get in on that bridge sale with you, Anne?

I remember asking why there weren't more burros in the area in southern AZ where I always see them. I learned there aren't really any more than when they were originally brought there - they aren't increasing in numbers disproportionately. But, again, we keep encroaching on land where they were - so they are more noticeable.

Judy, I love those parks ... hope you enjoy them as much this year.
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Re: Ice in Death Valley & a Coyote Close-up

Postby Nasoosie » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:54 am

Which brings up the latest government release on the protection of wolves in Wyoming and several other western states which has been in place for years. Now ranchers are claiming that the packs of wolves out there have become a liability to their cattle farming. They say the wolves pack up (normal for wolves, of course) and attack tons of cattle that they don't need to eat and maintain their packs.....leaving much of the meat behind. Now then, before the ranchers came to the wolves' territory, as Beth mentioned, the balance of the wild hoofed animals and the wolves was perfectly maintained. Many scientific experimental territories such as Isle Royale have proven the balance of predators to prey. (Until a tourist disregarded the warning to stay off the island as a scientific research project was going on there, and he brought his dogs with him. One of the dogs carried Parvo Virus to the wolf pack and wiped it totally out.) However, when ranchers invade the wolf territory with thousands and thousands of juicy prey, what on earth can they expect? Who has destroyed the balance there, humans or wolves? The answer is, as usual, of course, humans have tipped the scales and now are trapping and shooting as many wolves as they can. Wolves, once encouraged to return to the U. S. from Canada in order to provide tourists in our national parks out there with some native wildlife, protected from hunting and shooting as we had made them extinct this side of the border, are now being regarded as vermin by the ranchers. Hence, the government has decided to grant permission to eliminate them once again. Why, oh why, do we allow our wild lands to become ranches and farms? Why, when we build new housing developments, do we not save some wildness for the creatures who are native to the areas? Why have we never learned to respect our fellow living creatures' territories and habits and lives? What is wrong with us humans? I have to stop now as I can feel my blood pressure soaring and my blood trying to boil! The respect for all life, both animal and vegetable, needs to begin in our schools as part of a mandated curriculum if we are to survive on this earth for much longer.
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Re: Ice in Death Valley & a Coyote Close-up

Postby judi » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:42 pm

Very well said, Nasoosie.
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Re: Ice in Death Valley & a Coyote Close-up

Postby Bethers » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:17 pm

judi wrote:Very well said, Nasoosie.

x 2
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Re: Ice in Death Valley & a Coyote Close-up

Postby JudyJB » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:44 pm

And we are subsidizing those ranchers by allowing them to use federal lands extremely cheaply! They are using public lands for ridiculously low rates so that, supposedly, we can eat cheap beef. (Part of which is exported, by the way, so the "profit" does not necessarily provide cheap beef to American taxpayers.) The problem with blaming wolves for cattle deaths is that only the carcass is left--no one observes the wolf actually doing the killing.

I would much rather pay a fair price for beef than eliminate our predators who have a right to be there.

Did you all know that Michigan had a wolf hunting season this past fall? :x http://www.freep.com/article/20131208/NEWS06/312080102/wolf-hunt-michigan-wolves Like Michigan is now overrun by wolves??? The numbers were small, but Michigan has never had wolves in large numbers. Article says count in mostly unpopulated Upper Peninsula is only 658, and I can guarantee that there is very little ranching in the UP.
Last edited by JudyJB on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ice in Death Valley & a Coyote Close-up

Postby judi » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:54 pm

What would happen if no one ate beef for a month?
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Re: Ice in Death Valley & a Coyote Close-up

Postby dayspring39 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:34 am

So much food for thought…
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