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http://www.king5.com/news/local/Police- ... 89882.html

This is so sad and tragic.
IMO it is domestic terrorism.

To walk into a coffee shop and gun down and target a group of officers is disgusting.

The comments were getting so ugly toward the Law Enforcement the news site actually shut it down.

Ooops ... double post. My breathless comments can be found lower in the thread.

People are so quick to judge. I was working for the San Diego Police Department when the McDonalds shootings happened. Our department took a lot of flack because our sharpshooter took a while to take the shot and take down the suspect. What none of the newspapers made clear was that the shooter was inside the store behind big glass windows with the sun hitting the windows and the sharpshooter couldn't see anything. As soon as he was able to see, he took the shot. He beat himself up pretty bad for not taking the shot earlier even tho he couldn't tell who he was shooting at. He always felt he could have saved some lives if he's shot sooner.

When I heard about this, it took my breath away. My heart grieves for those families.
This is the second ambush in a month's time in that state. Seattle Police Officer Timothy
Brenton was shot and killed Oct. 31 while sitting in his patrol car, and student officer Brit
Sweeney was wounded. Four Seattle Police police cars were firebombed in the weeks
preceding that attack.

Domestic terrorism? Yes. All related and organized? Remains to be seen.

Getupngo wrote:When I heard about this, it took my breath away. My heart grieves for those families.
This is the second ambush in a month's time in that state. Seattle Police Officer Timothy
Brenton was shot and killed Oct. 31 while sitting in his patrol car, and student officer Brit
Sweeney was wounded. Four Seattle Police police cars were firebombed in the weeks
preceding that attack.

Domestic terrorism? Yes. All related and organized? Remains to be seen.

I know that is what is getting scary. Police officers are armed..these terrorists are going after them. IMO it means they will take out anyone and anybody.

The updated stories are they believe the suspect might be injured. As one of the officers did his/her gun while fighting the subject.

My prayers go out to the families of the victims, and those searching for the other killer.

We tend to think first of terrorists ... but this reminds me more of the
killings of police, judges & politicians south of the border. Perhaps these
drug cartels are importing their specific war FOR drugs into the U.S.

That whole Tacoma area is notorious for gangs. When my DIL worked nights at the
Tacoma Mall she made sure she had an escort to her car. Two weeks after she quit a guy opened fire
IN the mall. And I am sure drugs fuel the gangs, too.

I can't help but think that all the current violence is somehow related to the lack of punishment for crimes committed. Knowing one can commit a crime and not really get appropriate jail time, does not make for a deterrent. I know our jails are full to overflowing, but I think that if the criminals were actually punished for their crimes,and didn't have luxuries while in prison, the jails would be less full. I think this whole area needs to be readdressed. Linda

I disagree with the "lock 'em up" philosopy. Yes, we have to deal harshly with people
who assassinate police officers. Having said that, we have more people in prison than any
other country on earth. One in 31 U.S. adults are in prison, on parole or on probation.
According to the Pew Foundation, the American prison population even exceeds the
combined Soviet Union and China prison population during the height of their Communist
Regimes. Are Americans that bad?

And this is while crime rate is going DOWN. The Department of Justice web site says that
between 1997 and 2005 violent crime dropped 22.5% and property crime dropped 22.7%.
Between 2006 and 2007 violent crime increased 1.0% and property crime increased 2.7%.
During this same period of time arrest and incarceration showed dramatic increases.
The greatest percentages of arrest during this period were for consensual (victimless) crimes.

I think perhaps, the solutions may lie elsewhere, such as drug treatment instead of
incarceration. Most people in prison are addicts, alcoholics, and many are learning-disabled
and dropped out of school. These are problems we CAN address. People are worth saving.

Okay, hopping off my soap box ....

Ready the story in the Seattle Times about how Clemmons was killed. An officer
saw a car with its hood up ... so he ran the plate. As the officer sat in his patrol
car doing paperwork on the stolen car, he noticed a man was approaching the
driver's side of the patrol car from behind. He recognized Clemmons.

I have no doubt that if the officer hadn't reacted quickly that he would have been
officer #5 to die at Clemmons' hand. I'm glad it's over.

Getupngo wrote:Ready the story in the Seattle Times about how Clemmons was killed. An officer
saw a car with its hood up ... so he ran the plate. As the officer sat in his patrol
car doing paperwork on the stolen car, he noticed a man was approaching the
driver's side of the patrol car from behind. He recognized Clemmons.

I have no doubt that if the officer hadn't reacted quickly that he would have been
officer #5 to die at Clemmons' hand. I'm glad it's over.

I agree...he would have become the 5th officer to die had he not.

Here are few articles...he had many people help him afterward.

I do in part agree with you on that I do think we can deal with things in a better way. They need help and treatment...but IMO when it comes to violent repeat offenders...we have to take into consideration the risk. In his case he was a risk..a ticking time bomb...and he did not belong on the street.

I have more to say..but have to go...

I wanted to update people
The wanted suspect was killed by police this morning
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Poli...-78210277.html

They are arresting several people in connection with helping him escape.
part of me would love to see these people charged with accessory to murder...but I doubt it fits the criteria.

http://www.king5.com/home/Clemmons-a...-78266317.html


This is where CHANGES need to be made!!!!!!!!
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Psyc...-78246157.html
In the Oct. 19 evaluation report, psychologists Melissa Dannelet and Carl Redick wrote, "Based on Mr. Clemmons' documented criminal history, information obtained through interviews and treatment and a review of risk factors, it is our professional opinion that he presents with increased risk for future dangerous behavior and for committing future criminal acts jeopardizing public safety and security due to past illicit behaviors."

However, they said they had "insufficient grounds" to recommend that Clemmons be civilly committed.

Texas executes more criminals than any other state and it hasn't made our crime rate go down at all. As for Clemmons, in this country you can't arrest someone for what they MIGHT do. I agree he shouldn't have been on the streets. As for our prisons being full, a lot of them are drug addicts caught for doing someihing to support their habit. Maybe this country should take a look at England's drug programs. Heron addicts are actually provided with a stable dose daily and thus are not stealing or worse to support their habit AND they are holding down jobs. Interesting, huh?

Getupngo wrote:I disagree with the "lock 'em up" philosopy. Yes, we have to deal harshly with people
who assassinate police officers. Having said that, we have more people in prison than any
other country on earth. One in 31 U.S. adults are in prison, on parole or on probation.
According to the Pew Foundation, the American prison population even exceeds the
combined Soviet Union and China prison population during the height of their Communist
Regimes. Are Americans that bad?

And this is while crime rate is going DOWN. The Department of Justice web site says that
between 1997 and 2005 violent crime dropped 22.5% and property crime dropped 22.7%.
Between 2006 and 2007 violent crime increased 1.0% and property crime increased 2.7%.
During this same period of time arrest and incarceration showed dramatic increases.
The greatest percentages of arrest during this period were for consensual (victimless) crimes.

I think perhaps, the solutions may lie elsewhere, such as drug treatment instead of
incarceration. Most people in prison are addicts, alcoholics, and many are learning-disabled
and dropped out of school. These are problems we CAN address. People are worth saving.

Okay, hopping off my soap box ....

I do agree with this...I do think that not only does our justice system need overhauled..but so does our education system.

I agree that our prisons are full of people that do not really need to be there. For instance I do not think that first crimes, unless they directly involve a person (physical violence, etc)...I think the need counseling, house arrest, and probation. Same for many of the addicts, alcoholics..they need help not prison.

In this situation...while yes I realize you can't arrest or keep someone in for what they might do...but I have read several articles on this person..and he SHOULD not have been released in the first place.

Yes...I know he had a crappy up bringing..look at how many of his family members assisted him after he took the lives of 4 police officers.
I also know he still had a choice. He asked for and was given a second chance when he was granted clemency. He blew that before even moving up here. He should not have been paroled. Once he was arrested here in Washington..he should have been held in jail...on the basis that he had already fled and was in violation of his parole in Arkansas.

retiredhappy wrote:Maybe this country should take a look at England's drug programs. Heron addicts are actually provided with a stable dose daily... Interesting, huh?

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't help myself...I'm a sick person early in the morning until the brain is fully awake.



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