Fire just north of Anne

[Bethers]

Anne, I understand. And there's a likelihood I'd hang in as you are. Just know we care and only want the best for you.

Awesome that you found that purifier!

[Cudedog]

Thank you, Barbie. I wanted to let you know that I have wanted to respond more in depth to several of your posts on this thread. You have made good suggestions, and asked some good questions, and I appreciate it. Hope to find the time to respond further.

Beth, thank you for your post. It really is difficult to decide what to do. My very best friend and her husband, who live in the San Francisco Bay area (exactly one-hundred-one miles from my home - a good two or three hour drive, Bay Area traffic being what it is - I have clocked it when going to visit) have invited me to come to stay with them (I evacuated to their house for several days during the Oroville Dam disaster of. . . was it only last year? I'm afraid they will get tired of me ). But they have smoke at their house as well, with very poor air quality. I try not to burden people unless/until I have no choice.

No ash fall at their house, though. A definite bonus! For those who have never experienced the joys of ash fall, imagine dirt falling from the sky - or maybe, just for fun, take an extra-large scoop of ash from your fire place, or maybe your burn pile, and lightly sprinkle it over your vehicle (inside and out), maybe over all of the contents of your garage, and all up and down your front walkway, where you are sure to track it inside your house. Sprinkle it out the back door, too, so your dog and cat can track it in). Don't forget all of your outside patio furniture, your plants, your lawn - everything.

Hrm. On second thought, don't. Ugh.

Both my children live in apartments in the Bay Area as well, they also have smoke (and closed businesses in their area due to the smoke), and their apartment buildings do not allow dogs of Joe's breed. So that's out.

All in all, just easier to stay at home.

In addition to buying filters for the HEPA air purifying machine that I found, I think I might also order a new machine. The one I have is helping quite a bit, two might be even better than one.

I'll look around at my local information sources, and post another fire update in a bit.

Thank you, all.

Anne

[Cudedog]

Camp Fire update, November 17, 2018 @ 8:40 a.m.

Pets burned in the Camp Fire need to find their humans (Washington Post):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2018/11/17/surviving-camp-fire-was-hard-enough-now-these-animals-have-find-their-humans/?utm_term=.55234650aa09

Number of missing grows to more than one thousand in the Camp Fire (CNN):
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/16/us/california-fires/index.html

Fallout from Camp Fire: Air Quality in [San Francisco] Bay Area at Dangerous Levels - "Big Game" between UC-Berkeley and Stanford postponed due to environmental concerns(NBC) [check out the photo in this article of downtown San Francisco - this is how is looks at my house, only it is worse at my house - the San Francisco Bay Area is about 150 miles from the Camp Fire - as noted in my earlier post, seven-million people live in the Bay Area]:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fallout-camp-fire-air-quality-bay-area-dangerous-levels-n937196

LIST: Events canceled in the [San Francisco] Bay Area due to Camp Fire smoke (ABC):
https://abc7news.com/list-events-canceled-in-bay-area-due-to-camp-fire-smoke/4697236/

Smoked out: NorCal events impacted by Camp Fire smoke [note smoke haze over Sacramento, 100 miles from the Camp Fire] (Local NBC affiliate):
https://www.kcra.com/article/smoked-out-norcal-events-impacted-by-camp-fire-smoke/25181115

From YubaNet.com:

Lead Agency: CAL FIRE BTU
Size (acres): 149,511
Percent Contained: 55%
Estimate of Containment: Nov. 30, 2018
Personnel: 5,632
Structures Destroyed: 12,256

"Critical fire weather conditions will ramp up later tonight through Sunday afternoon. During the day, generally light winds are forecast, with the exception of breezy down canyon winds in the Feather River this morning. Heavy smoke will remain over the fire area today with poor visibilities. Starting this evening after 1800, winds will begin to increase from the northeast. Peak gusts up to 50 mph will be after midnight and through 1000 Sunday morning, especially over upper-slopes, ridges, and aligned drainages including the Feather River Canyon. Dry conditions with humidity around 15-25% will accompany the critical winds. Lighter winds are expected Monday and Tuesday, then rain will likely to move into the region Wednesday and again Thursday night into Friday as the ridge breaks down over California."

From the CalFire website:

"Overnight firefighters continued to battle moderate fire behavior due to critically dry fuels and gusty canyon winds. Direct and indirect control lines continue to be implemented and secured with back-firing operations as conditions allow. Throughout the day firefighters will work to strengthen containment lines while also preparing for projected increased winds and a Red Flag Warning this weekend. Work continues in the interior areas of the fire area extinguishing hot spots and removing the many hazards that still exist."

From Weather.gov (The United States National Weather Service website, searching on Oroville, Ca.):
https://www.weather.gov/

Wednesday Rain likely. Cloudy, with a high near 55.
Wednesday Night Rain. Cloudy, with a low around 48.
Thanksgiving Day Rain likely. Cloudy, with a high near 54.
Thursday Night Rain. Cloudy, with a low around 48.
Friday Rain likely. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 54.

Day 9 of the Camp Fire. We are all praying for rain here, as the Camp Fire still burns.

Anne

[OregonLuvr]

I have been following the rescue stories on Cowboy911 facebook group. Amazing what these folks are doing for livestock and wildlife. All on their own time and money. I felt compelled to donate to them yesterday just because I think it will be money well spent. I wont donate to the Red Cross, sorry. They are using big trucks and trailers and those trucks use lots of gas. Some people have opened their homes to them for a hot shower, a meal, and a place to rest up. I felt very satisfied last night.

[BarbaraRose]

Found this on FB. Sounds like good advice...

[Cudedog]

Camp Fire update 11/18/18 @ 12:30 a.m.

This from the CalFire website
http://www.fire.ca.gov/current_incidents/incidentdetails/Index/2277

County: Butte County
Acres Burned - Containment: 149,000 acres - 55% contained
Structures Threatened: 15,500
Structures Destroyed: 9,891 residences, 367 commercial and 2,528 other buildings
Injuries: 3 injuries - 76 civilian fatalities
Cause: Under investigation
Cooperating Agencies: California Department of Transportation, California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, California Highway Patrol, California Office of Emergency Services, National Weather Service, California Conservation Corps, Butte County, City of Chico
Total Fire Personnel: 5,624
Total Fire Engines: 607
Total Fire Crews: 102
Total Helicopters: 24
Total Dozers: 82
Total Water Tenders: 73

Conditions: The Camp Fire remained active today with some fire progression in the Grizzly Creek area. Firefighters continued working hard to conduct structure preparation, construct primary and secondary containment lines, and implement back-firing operations as conditions allow. A Red Flag Warning is in place until Sunday afternoon and firefighters are preparing for the projected increased wind by strategically staging more personnel and engines. Established containment lines continue to hold and firefighters will further patrol areas within the fire perimeter removing heat and hazards.

~~~~

Hopefully, with the coming of the rain predicted for Wednesday, the Camp Fire incident is finally beginning to wind down.

It will likely be some years before the area, and the community of Paradise, recovers.

Anne

[Colliemom]

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the rain for you too. Yes, very sad stories from Paradise. The Weather Channel has been doing a fantastic job of covering things out there. The pictures are so heartbreaking. They may never find all the missing people. And who I wanna how many people will go back and rebuild or move elsewhere,or even leave the state.

[snowball]

it is totally sad...one can't imagine
I could put a plug in for a place to go blue skies no smoke totally desert lol
we would welcome you in Q in a heart beat
sheila

[Cudedog]

Karen, I must look into the group you mentioned. Thank you.

Sandi - Thanks for your phone call of a week ago. Much appreciated.

Barbie, hope you are feeling better tonight. You have been in my thoughts.

Sue, thank you for your comments. Rain is looking more and more likely, thank heavens.

Sheila, thank you for the invite to "Q". I'm definitely "thinking about it". Not sure what to do - it gets down in the low 30's here at night now (in the mid-50's to lower 60's during the day). I'm not sure (never had a trailer before, so never needed to winterize) but I might need to take my trailer in to be winterized soon - winterized before I would be able to come to "Q".

Beth, thank you for this forum, and for putting up with me.

Smoke overcast, and smoke hanging in the air, was much less today, but still a very strong smoke smell when outside. Air quality in my immediate area is rated at "Very Unhealthy", so I have continued to forego my evening walks. "Very Unhealthy" is a lot better than "Hazardous", as it was a few days back. I am just staying inside, windows and doors closed, air purifier running at top speed setting.

Evening update, November 18, 2018 @ 11:20 p.m. Pacific Time

Number of still missing and unaccounted for: 993

Number of fatalities: 77

Predicted Rain Adds Urgency to the Search for Victims of the Camp Fire
https://ktla.com/2018/11/18/predicted-rain-adds-urgency-to-the-search-for-victims-of-camp-fire/

Camp Fire: How do you rebuild Paradise when all seems lost? [90% of Paradise residences destroyed]
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/11/18/camp-fire-how-do-you-rebuild-paradise-when-all-seems-lost/

Evacuation delay may have cost dozens their lives in Camp Fire.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-evacuation-delay-may-have-cost-dozens-of-lives-in-northern-california-fire

Many Paradise residents burned alive in their cars
https://www.thedailybeast.com/californi ... ve-in-cars

Many were gridlocked or never got warning [average speed on escape route 4 mph]
https://earther.gizmodo.com/as-camp-fire-overtook-paradise-many-were-gridlocked-or-1830524170

The catastrophic Camp Fire isn't even halfway done burning, officials predict [posted 11/18/18]
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/18/us/california-fires-week-two/index.html

A Deadly Tsunami of Fire: Seventy-six people are dead. At least 1,276 are missing. And more than 7 million have been confined to their homes, as a cloud of toxic, corrosive ash darkens their windows and creeps under their doors.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/11/california-fire-76-are-dead-1276-missing-us-catastrophe/576130/

[I'm not sure that the ashfall as is widespread as described here above - but the toxic smoke coverage definitely is. Air quality in my region of California has bee the worst in the world over the last several days -Anne]


From YubaNet.com
https://yubanet.com/Fires/camp/

Size (acres): 149,511
Percent Contained: 65%
Estimate of Containment: Nov. 30, 2018
Personnel: 5,332
Structures Destroyed: 12,256
Civilian Fatalities: 77
Structures Threatened: 14,500
Single Residences Destroyed: 10,364
Single Residences Damaged: 338
Multiple Residences Destroyed: 259
Commercial Destroyed: 418
Commercial Damaged: 81
Other Minor Structures Destroyed: 2,992

From CalFire
http://www.fire.ca.gov/current_incidents/incidentdetails/Index/2277

"Firefighters made good progress throughout the day to strengthen and improve containment lines. Crews have continued to work in steep and rugged terrain to implement direct and indirect control lines which will aid in stopping the fire’s forward progress. Firefighters and utility cooperators worked within the fire’s interior to patrol for heat and remove hazards. Multiple California Urban Search & Rescue (US&R) Task Forces and US&R Human Remains Detection Canine Search Teams have arrived to assist Butte County Sheriff with the search for, and recovery of, victims missing in the areas affected by the Camp Fire."

Now eleven days in - the Camp Fire still burns.

~ Anne

[BirdbyBird]

Thank you Anne for sharing so many of the details that get lost in the one liners of the TV news. I have been away from the computer most of the weekend but have been thinking of you and Joe and all the lives affected out west. The links that you have selected to share are invaluable to telling a more competed story and perspective of the on going events. Thank you.

And then I think of how much more of the land is parched and susceptible to continued devastation. It is a matter of chance and a"roll" of the weather dice.

[OregonLuvr]

Anne another couple of sites that I find interesting.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2156811 ... oup_header

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2134335 ... oup_header

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2049130 ... oup_header

[Cudedog]

Thank you Anne for sharing so many of the details that get lost in the one liners of the TV news. I have been away from the computer most of the weekend but have been thinking of you and Joe and all the lives affected out west. The links that you have selected to share are invaluable to telling a more competed story and perspective of the on going events. Thank you.

You are most welcome, Tina. Thank you for your post. I know from past fires in my immediate area that the national media doesn't cover disasters in my area as much as they do for disasters in areas of larger population, and thus (perhaps) larger areas of wealth (Butte County, where the Camp Fire is burning, is one of the poorest counties in the state).

For example, few remember the Cascade Fire in Loma Rica October of last year 2017. The Cascade fire burned in Yuba County - also one of the poorest counties in the state.

https://fox40.com/2018/10/03/loma-rica-continues-to-rebuild-a-year-after-cascade-fire/

"The Cascade Fire was part of the Wind Complex -- four different fires covering Yuba, Nevada and Butte counties. It made up a little more than half of the complex and was deemed the most destructive. The Cascade Fire killed four people, destroyed 142 homes and burned nearly 10,000 acres."

This fire was closer to me than is the Camp Fire (only about 17 miles due east of me, also in the foothills), my home had a lot of smoke from this fire as well. National media coverage of this fire was spotty at best, even [fairly] local television stations did not cover it much. Just too far away, I guess - and it was a relatively "small" fire, as such things go. Only a "few" people killed by the fire. . . Closest tv stations to the fire were between 60 and 100 miles away.

It is important - at least to me - to foster understanding of what those of us on the drought-parched West Coast are facing. The national media will - sometimes - jump in on the story when a fire breaks out - but information as a fire rages on tends to get buried by other stories.

One hears a lot about dry brush and California wildland fires - many parts of Oregon and Washington are in much the same condition, and at nearly - or even exactly - the same amount drought and dried-out vegetation, and thus the same amount of risk. But the media just mostly talks about California.

I have lived in this part of northern California for nearly fifty years. Summers here were once beautiful and warm (and often downright hot) here, with interspersed days of relative coolness (even a few cold days!), even rain sprinkles now and again (especially in June).

For about the last ten years (I can put a number on this because I brought my father to Northern California ten years ago - he is now gone) summer means no rain, unrelenting heat, and smoke-filled skies. Every summer, almost all summer long. This has far and away been the case for the summer of 2018.

When I first moved to Northern California, our first hard freeze would come about mid-September. Sometimes our first hard freeze these days doesn't come until January.

Karen, maybe you can chime in on this - I'm thinking it must be much the same for you.

We no longer look forward to lazy summer days of picnics in the park, but instead we have smoke-filled skies, smoke hanging in the air, choking smoke smell outside, often with light to heavy ashfall; staying inside with the windows and doors shut, and wondering how many fire fatalities there will be "this time".

Major wildland fires so far, just this year, in Northern California: 7,579 (some as small as just of a couple of acres, many of tens of thousands of acres, some even of hundreds of thousands of acres):

This from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires

[this is only a partial posting of the information on the Wikipedia site - and this information is before the current Camp Fire began to burn]

"2018 is the most destructive wildfire season on record in California, with a total of 7,579 fires burning an area of 1,667,855 acres (674,957 ha), the largest amount of burned acreage recorded in a fire season, according to the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CAL FIRE)."

Lots more information here on the Wikipedia page, too much to re-post here. I encourage those who might be interested to give the page a read. Fire, and smoke from fire, and falling ash from fire, . . . and fatalities from fire. . . is our reality here. Not to many mentions of this in the national media, I don't think.

And then I think of how much more of the land is parched and susceptible to continued devastation. It is a matter of chance and a"roll" of the weather dice.

Precisely. And, again, it is not just California - it is much of the west coast.

Just unfathomable! Heartbreaking!

I read one story where a woman and her dad watched the fire come closer to their home. The power went out in the early afternoon and they had no way to find out what was going on. They waited until 8pm when their house caught on fire to decide to evacuate. The father ran back into the house to get something and never came back out. The daughter tried to drive away with her two dogs in the car but the tires had melted from the heat. She got out and got into a wet ditch nearby with the dogs and watched the house burn to the ground. My issue is why did they not leave earlier in the day when they had the chance. Why do these people wait until the last second to leave? They were lucky to have had the extra time to pack up and leave before the fire got to them, unlike many others who didn't have that opportunity. I just don't get that...

Good morning, Barbie. Excellent questions. Your post has been on my mind the last several days, as I mulled over how best to answer it.

It is difficult to know why people wait so long to leave. One doesn't know their exact situation - were they new to the area? Were they unaware that they were living in a wildland area prone to wildfire (Paradise also had a "close call" with wildfire in 2008, with fire burning several homes on the outskirts of the city)?

Were they keeping up with local fire news? Perhaps not - electricity and telephone lines were down in the area, almost from the beginning of the Camp Fire - their only option might have been to listen to a battery-powered or car radio if they had one. Many people don't think of their car radio as a source of information - but, on the other hand, radio reception is spotty at best in the foothills - I can attest to that. The only radio I could reliably receive when living in the foothills was satellite radio.

Cell phone service in foothill areas here is generally very spotty to non-existent.

Then there is always a big problem with denial - "it can't/won't happen to me here". And, of course, there has never before been a fire in California - nor in the entire United States - quite like this one. Easy then to perhaps dismiss whatever information they were receiving. Perhaps they believed that the information that they were aware of was exaggerated or alarmist.

Perhaps they just didn't realize that the fire was so close, until it was too late.

As I have written before, I lived in the foothills for nearly thirty years in an area much the same (topographically) as Paradise (Paradise was and is about twenty-five or thirty miles as the crow flies from where I used to live). My home was at around the same elevation as Paradise, surrounded by wildland (summertime dry grass, dry brush, dry trees) similar to Paradise. Extremely strong autumn winds where I lived, just like in Paradise - indeed, these winds are are "normal" for autumn, and blow at this time every year, over most of California, north and south.

The area where I lived had a very scattered population of around five hundred. Paradise has/had around thirty-thousand.

Summers made one extremely cautious (I'm not exaggerating here). The first thing one did when one got up in the morning, and the last thing one did before dark, was to search the sky for smoke (smoke clouds look very different than rain clouds, it is easy to tell the difference). Sometimes, when things were especially hot and dry, one would open the door at night and smell for smoke.

During the day, one always listened for fire-spotting aircraft. Living in a rural area, outdoors was generally pretty quiet - and the engine of a fire-spotting aircraft is thus very distinctive. If one heard the sound of this aircraft, and then went outside and saw one flying overhead, one knew it was time to "get ready".

http://www.fire.ca.gov/communications/downloads/AviationGuide_FINAL_web.pdf

If one heard the ominous, distinctive rumble of a DC-10 (an enormous jet aircraft used to drop fire retardant), or even saw one flying overhead, we knew (without being told) that it was probably time to get the car packed up (photo of DC-10 under link above).

Our main source of fire information when a fire was threatening was the local, all-volunteer, fire station. It was within walking distance, so when fire threatened, we would just walk up there several times a day to see what was going on. A couple of times the parking lot there became a major campground for CalFire.

Radio reception was mostly non-existant, and until the coming of satellite television, we didn't have reliable tv reception either.

One thus learned to "pay attention" to what was going on in our immediate area. Neighbors would inform neighbors.

During those years I was twice under Mandatory Evacuation orders. We packed our cars, but didn't leave either time.

Why not?

First of all, and again, there had never been a fire like the Camp Fire.

Secondly, we had livestock (horses, goats, chickens) that we would need to release out onto the road if we were to go (with limited funds, we did not have a stock trailer, and we did not have a vehicle that could pull one, even if we had such a trailer).

Thirdly, there was not a population density in the area. We lived on the main road, there was little to no traffic going by.

Fourthly, We generally knew where the fire was. One of the mandatory evacuation times, the fire was on the other side of a ridge, to the east of our home. This ridge was fairly close, but completely visible from my living room. I stayed up all night, when the fire was at it's worst, watching the ridge. Had the flames come over the ridge, we would have opened the gates, opened the chicken coop, loaded our dogs, and just driven away. Again, low population density in the area, no traffic on the roads.

I saw flames licking up at the top of the ridge several times during the night, but the flames never came over.

On the other hand, it was always possible for a fire to get started nearer to us, in the middle of the night, when we were sleeping. Had that happened, it might not have been possible for us to escape. The Loma Rica fire happened in the wee hours of the morning, when people were sleeping. This is why people died in that fire.

Knowing now about the Camp Fire, I am not sure we would have stayed. But that was then - this is now.

One of my reasons for moving out of the foothills eight years ago is that I got tired of being afraid all summer long, every summer, of wildfire. Not an overriding reason - but one of the reasons nonetheless.

I still miss, and still grieve for, my wonderful and beautiful foothills home. Probably always will. I had dreamed of living in such a place as a child, ever since growing up in the suburbs of Los Angeles.

But I don't think, especially at my age, that I shall ever go back there.

Death toll from the Camp Fire stands at 80 this morning, with that number expected to increase. Hundreds of individuals still listed as missing and unaccounted for.

As the Camp Fire still burns.

Thank you.

Anne

[BarbaraRose]

I have been paying a lot of attention to the Cowboy 911 and 711 FB pages. They are doing a lot to search for, rescue and recover pets, livestock and wildlife up there. Awesome group of people!

The rest of the news just makes me cry!

[JudyJB]

I have a story that might explain why some people wait so long to leave. My ex-husband's grandparents were in their 70s when we got married. They were old, German farmers who never turned lights on in their house until it was very dark in the evening. They also believed that turning on car headlights during the day burned too much gasoline. Their farm did not have electricity and indoor plumbing until the mid-1950s.

I rermember one weekend when they were supposed to drive from Ohio up to visit us in Michigan. They lived then in a small home in town, having sold their farm to their daughter and her family. Except their furnace in the house was acting up this weekend and turning off and on randomly, and they were afraid it might blow up. So what did they do? They stayed home so they could watch it and be available if there were an accident.

If you or I smell gas or are afraid of a furnace blowing up, we immediately head outdoors. But people who are closely connected to their homes may not think the same way. They may worry where they could go. They may have pets, or other things they do not want to leave. This might be a kind of denial, but I think there is also connection to things that stop people from leaving.

I think someone needs to take advantage of this fire opportunity and try to figure out why people do not evacuate. That would make it easier to put out warnings that would be meaningful. Maybe like a neighborhood watch?

By the way, they used to get up early in the morning and walk three brisk miles in heat and snow, every day, even in their 90s. He lived to be 95 and died within an hour of going to an emergency room. (They almost never went to doctors and took baking soda if they were ill.) She lived one month short of 100 without being in a nursing home or being hospitalized, so somehow this all worked for them.

[BarbaraRose]

Our mobile home community has a neighborhood watch of sorts. There are block captains who are in charge of a certain number of neighbors around them. In case of an emergency (fire, earthquake, etc), they are responsible for making sure those people are safe or get the help they need. They keep track of who is disabled, who is on oxygen or have other health issues so they can make sure those are the first ones who get attention.
More communities need to do this kind of thing.